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Therion

Therion

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According to FTG (Paradox's) description of coffee:

GOODSDESC_COFFEE;Coffee was used as a stimulant by the Aztecs, Incas and Indian rulers since the early medieval. It was popularized in Europe in the early 16th century when the Spaniards imported it from its American colonies. For many hundred years coffee was considered a luxury product until it finally was used on a daily basis by the common people.;x
Click to expand...

Is this true? I always thought coffee came from Ethiopia and Arabia.

Or did Paradox mistake it for coca?
 
Btw, I encountered this while revising the goods for ExtraWatk. Which goods should be added you think?

This is what I came with so far.

Code: 
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_CATTLE;Cattle;x[/COLOR]
GOODS_CHINAWARE;Chinaware;x (might change name to Porcelain)
GOODS_CLOTH;Textiles;x
GOODS_COFFEE;Coffee;x
GOODS_COPPER;Copper;x
GOODS_COTTON;Cotton;x
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_DYE;Dyestuffs;x[/COLOR] 
GOODS_FISH;Fish;x
GOODS_FUR;Furs;x
GOODS_GOLD;Gold;x
GOODS_GRAIN;Grain;x
GOODS_IVORY;Ivory;x
GOODS_IRON;Iron;x
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_TIMBER;Timber;x[/COLOR] (replaces naval supplies)
GOODS_SALT;Salt;x
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_SILK;Silk;x[/COLOR]
GOODS_SLAVES;Slaves;x
GOODS_SPICES;Spices;x
GOODS_SUGAR;Sugar;x
GOODS_TEA;Tea;x
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_TIN;Tin;x[/COLOR]  (still unsure about this)
GOODS_TOBACCO;Tobacco;x
[COLOR="Yellow"]GOODS_TROPICAL;Tropical Woods;x[/COLOR] (brazilwood, ebony, etc.)
GOODS_WINE;Wine;x
GOODS_WOOL;Wool;x

Basically, I want to add a few essential goods without opening any cans of worms. So for instance I decided against adding rice because then you'd probably have to split grain into wheat, maize, barley, sorghum, milley, oaths..... Same with dyestuffs which includes woad, indigo, cochineal. I was gonna add them as separate entries at first and make dyes of the same colour (classical example being woad and indigo) work against each other but, again, this might open a can of worms.

Opinions?
 
Therion said:
According to FTG (Paradox's) description of coffee:



Is this true? I always thought coffee came from Ethiopia and Arabia.

Or did Paradox mistake it for coca?
Click to expand...

They have it confused with Cocoa. Coffee came from Ethiopia, became a luxury in Arabia and was just like sugar grown around the med and then taken to America.
 
Isn't rum a product of sugarcane? So it's more or less represented by the ability to build refineries in sugar provinces.

There are other beverages like beer, whiskey, vodka but all these are products of various grains so I changed the default manu for grain to refinery (random events will give refineries not weapons manu in grains provs). Not sure if I should give it a bonus though as grain provs are abundant.
 
Therion said:
Isn't rum a product of sugarcane? So it's more or less represented by the ability to build refineries in sugar provinces.
Click to expand...

Rum is a byproduct of the Caribbean sugar industry. Just ask those Caribbean pirates. They know the truth.

And it seems that Paradox' description of Coffee simply got it confused with Cacao (cocoa). I would personally change that description to.... the tale of Suleyman the Magnificent's siege of Vienna, where the Ottoman Army abandoned the siege, and the dumb Jannissaries left sacks of coffee beans in the fields outside Vienna. From there, the Austrians picked up on the taste of coffee, and then 5 years later there were Starbucks coffee shops appearing all over Vienna's cobblestone boulevards. ;)
 
Hehe. This is what I changed it to..with the help of wikipedia.

GOODSDESC_COFFEE;According to legend, coffee was discovered by a goatherder in 9th-century Ethiopia. From Ethiopia, the beverage was introduced into the Arab world through Egypt and Yemen. It was here in Arabia that coffee beans were first roasted and brewed. By the 16th century, it had reached the rest of the Middle East, Persia, Turkey, and northern Africa. Coffee then spread to Italy, and to the rest of Europe, to Indonesia, and to the Americas.;x
Click to expand...

I'll consider hemp but randomly changing half of the grain regions to hemp will not do in my books...I will need some data on which regions produced it.
 
Therion said:
Isn't rum a product of sugarcane? So it's more or less represented by the ability to build refineries in sugar provinces.

There are other beverages like beer, whiskey, vodka but all these are products of various grains so I changed the default manu for grain to refinery (random events will give refineries not weapons manu in grains provs). Not sure if I should give it a bonus though as grain provs are abundant.
Click to expand...

You are making a mistake here though. There were never really any proto-industries based on grains. The production was small-scale until the 19th century, in contrast sugar/rum refineries were often found in the harbour ports of the colonial powers in Europe. Since manufactories in EU2 are supposed to symbolize a cluster of production it makes more sense to limit it to wine and sugar.
 
And it seems that Paradox' description of Coffee simply got it confused with Cacao (cocoa). I would personally change that description to.... the tale of Suleyman the Magnificent's siege of Vienna, where the Ottoman Army abandoned the siege, and the dumb Jannissaries left sacks of coffee beans in the fields outside Vienna. From there, the Austrians picked up on the taste of coffee, and then 5 years later there were Starbucks coffee shops appearing all over Vienna's cobblestone boulevards.
Click to expand...

You forgot the part about the croissant and the cappuccino, buddy.

And that didnt happen during Suleyman's siege of Vienna, but during the 1683 siege of vienna.
 
Perhaps also honey and wax? Honey was used to make spirits in the Baltic region, wax from Lithuania and Russia was exported almost to every corner of Europe to make candles.
 
Suleyman said:
Rum is a byproduct of the Caribbean sugar industry. Just ask those Caribbean pirates. They know the truth.

And it seems that Paradox' description of Coffee simply got it confused with Cacao (cocoa). I would personally change that description to.... the tale of Suleyman the Magnificent's siege of Vienna, where the Ottoman Army abandoned the siege, and the dumb Jannissaries left sacks of coffee beans in the fields outside Vienna. From there, the Austrians picked up on the taste of coffee, and then 5 years later there were Starbucks coffee shops appearing all over Vienna's cobblestone boulevards. ;)
Click to expand...

nope, it was the 1683 siege, not Suleyman's siege that you are referencing.
 
Therion said:
Yeah, I could add those too but I don't know whether they were primary products and which regions produced them exactly.
Click to expand...
Livonia, Lithuania, Russia and Finland. One in Spain (possible). Also some in East Africa. I can help you with provinces if you wish.

A description could be this: "Honey and wax came from beehives. Some were deliberately kept by bee-keepers. The produce of the hives were used as food, in industry and medicine and for a number of other things all over the world. The mead is an alcoholic beverage produced out of fermented honey that was the basic drink in Northern Europe and Ethiopia for centuries."
 
Herr Doctor said:
Also what do you think about silver (similar to gold)? May be also glass (Venice), linen (very popular clothes in Northern and Western Europe)?
Click to expand...

Yes, I've added silver. I know the largest American mines like Zacatecas and Potosi produced silver. And Tryol too I think. But first I have to see that "gold" inflation works properly for gold and silver combined.

I considered glass but I don't know who produced it on a large scale apart from Venice and maybe Moravia.

Same goes for linen. Flanders? Wallonia? Ulster in the late period?
 
Herr Doctor said:
Livonia, Lithuania, Russia and Finland. One in Spain (possible). Also some in East Africa. I can help you with provinces if you wish.

A description could be this: "Honey and wax came from beehives. Some were deliberately kept by bee-keepers. The produce of the hives were used as food, in industry and medicine and for a number of other things all over the world. The mead is an alcoholic beverage produced out of fermented honey that was the basic drink in Northern Europe and Ethiopia for centuries."
Click to expand...
Yes, I'd appreciate if you could help. Thanks for the desc!
 
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