Collecting opinions on location density.

[zeruosi]

Overall, I'd say that Japan should definitely be viewed as an extreme outlier. I do not think every region should strive to match Japan. But still, I don't deny that India and China probably/definitely could use more locations(a few hundred even), I just don't think they have to be fully equivalent in scope.

Why should Japan be an exception? I don't understand. I can understand that Europeans prefer to simulate the complex situation in Europe and focus on it. But I completely cannot understand that Japan, located in Asia, should be an exception. If it were only due to Japan's daimyo civil war, the situation in India at that time was more complex than that in Japan. If it is because Japan's history records more locations, every county in China has its own history book, which can even be traced back to the county magistrate of the Han Dynasty and the surrounding bandit dens.
In terms of historical influence, China and India have a much greater impact in PC time than Japan.

 

[Oglesby]

Why should Japan be an exception? I don't understand. I can understand that Europeans prefer to simulate the complex situation in Europe and focus on it. But I completely cannot understand that Japan, located in Asia, should be an exception. If it were only due to Japan's daimyo civil war, the situation in India at that time was more complex than that in Japan. If it is because Japan's history records more locations, every county in China has its own history book, which can even be traced back to the county magistrate of the Han Dynasty and the surrounding bandit dens.
In terms of historical influence, China and India have a much greater impact in PC time than Japan.

I would say it is for the shogun thing, yes. For India is it so many 'thingies' in a small landmass area? (I do not know)
I also think the "Voltaire's nightmare" situation increases the density of the HRE area.

 

[zeruosi]

I would say it is for the shogun thing, yes. For India is it so many 'thingies' in a small landmass area? (I do not know)
I also think the "Voltaire's nightmare" situation increases the density of the HRE area.

At least according to feedback from the Indian region, yes, it is much more complex than Japan, and even more complex than the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Oglesby]

At least according to feedback from the Indian region, yes, it is much more complex than Japan, and even more complex than the Holy Roman Empire.

There can be a difference between complexity and quantity of polities they are trying to represent. I have not looked into India not do I have the time currently to do so.

I was just attempting to explain why someone might have thought that Japan/HRE did have a higher density

 

[Ekyman]

More locations=more potential RGO output
More RGO diversity
More population cap per Area
It's useful

But more difficulty with control (and maybe market access too? I don’t remember how that one’s calculated).

 

[Palfouri]

Why should Japan be an exception? I don't understand. I can understand that Europeans prefer to simulate the complex situation in Europe and focus on it. But I completely cannot understand that Japan, located in Asia, should be an exception. If it were only due to Japan's daimyo civil war, the situation in India at that time was more complex than that in Japan. If it is because Japan's history records more locations, every county in China has its own history book, which can even be traced back to the county magistrate of the Han Dynasty and the surrounding bandit dens.
In terms of historical influence, China and India have a much greater impact in PC time than Japan.

I think it's because Japan has both high political fragmentation and good records that are easy to access, unlike China which has good records but little political fragmentation and India which has high political fragmentation but is difficult to actually find records for.

 

[zeruosi]

I think it's because Japan has both high political fragmentation and good records that are easy to access, unlike China which has good records but little political fragmentation and India which has high political fragmentation but is difficult to actually find records for.

In fact, the fragmentation of ancient Chinese politics was also very extensive, except for the well-known chieftains. Even in the core areas controlled by the dynasty, there are often small-scale rebel strongholds established, forming independent small kingdoms.
In addition to the issue of rebel forces, another reason in ancient China was that the power of the emperor could not be delegated below the county level.
Relying on family and farmer autonomy below the county level means that if an elder or respected person in a village wants to rebel, the village or township will immediately transform into an independent small country.
Although it is usually quickly eradicated, the Yuan Dynasty in 1337 is clearly not among them.

 

[Palfouri]

In fact, the fragmentation of ancient Chinese politics was also very extensive, except for the well-known chieftains. Even in the core areas controlled by the dynasty, there are often small-scale rebel strongholds established, forming independent small kingdoms.
In addition to the issue of rebel forces, another reason in ancient China was that the power of the emperor could not be delegated below the county level.
Relying on family and farmer autonomy below the county level means that if an elder or respected person in a village wants to rebel, the village or township will immediately transform into an independent small country.
Although it is usually quickly eradicated, the Yuan Dynasty in 1337 is clearly not among them.

When I refer to political fragmentation I mean the need to depict a lot of independent states (or nominal vassals) on the map because they manage to exist for a long time, and the government and foreign powers acknowledge their existence. For instance, the states of the Holy Roman Empire, all the small independent kingdoms in India, and the daimyos in Japan. From reading the forum the only place in China that this seems like it would apply to is the tusi states in the southwest (and I've seen proposals to improve on their depiction as well). If this also applies elsewhere in China then it would make sense to improve location density and also add these tags at game start.

 

[Oglesby]

But more difficulty with control (and maybe market access too? I don’t remember how that one’s calculated).

I believe both are based on distance. So for the 1 big or 5 small, some of the small would have higher control/access and some would have less.
It also depends on road and buildings. so the 1 big wins this as it increase more 'area' per road segment or building.

 

[Ekyman]

I believe both are based on distance. So for the 1 big or 5 small, some of the small would have higher control/access and some would have less.
It also depends on road and buildings. so the 1 big wins this as it increase more 'area' per road segment or building.

Distance for Control is a flat number per location, with some modifiers applied. We know roads reduce the cost “from 40 to 20,” for example. So fewer, larger locations are easier to control at a base level, in addition to being easier to gain modifiers from roads and buildings.

Distance for Markets I’m not certain of but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same core system.