Colonization, a leftover mechanism ?

[IsaacCAT]

I have the feeling that colonization mechanism was thought when you were able to move all POPs:

Colonization - Imperator Wiki

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In 2.0 it is reduced to a slave movement gimmick.

I would like colonization to be a government investment of PI and/or money in a territory that will attract migration to that territory. The territory would be integrated in your nation when a majority of integrated POPs are present.

If two or more nations invest to colonize a territory, the first to reach majority of integrated POPs will get the territory.

Migration will work as it is now, but the territory will be flagged as available for migration for all nations that have invested on it.

What is the limit? Will you be able to invest anywhere? Yes, depending on your available PI and money, but you will never get your POPs there if you cannot make them migrate.

If we would want to replicate the Greek or Punic colonies that colonized very far away lands from their original territories, some law could be implemented to foster this migration. Now is limited to having a port present in the province and being the same country (the last one should be modified to allow POPs to migrate to colony invested territories):

Population - Imperator Wiki

imperator.paradoxwikis.com

What do you think?

 

[Nominus]

Very much reminds me of Victoria 2 and I like the idea, but I think right now we have a lot of possibilities to spend PI and it's a very limited ressource. We would need some balancing there as well.
Why not move it to suggestions?

 

[Vityviktor]

I thought in a similar way about colonization, but I also thought about Tribes and "empty lands".

In EU: Rome most of the map (except the Mediterranean and the Middle East) was "empty" (colonizable) area, with some small but "organized" tribal realms, so you could actually settle these "empty" lands using the colonization mechanic . Now, in Imperator most of these areas are covered by lots of different (and playable) tribes., and the "empty" areas are not very common (which also gives place to a different topic, about why some tribes are portrayed as such, and why others are left as "colonizable areas", specially in Germania or Dacia). You conquer these lands by declaring war to these tribes.

In future updates, maybe Imperator: Rome should definitely dump or fully revamp this "colonization" thing.

 

[DukeLeto42]

I would like colonization to be a government investment of PI and/or money in a territory that will attract migration to that territory. The territory would be integrated in your nation when a majority of integrated POPs are present.

If two or more nations invest to colonize a territory, the first to reach majority of integrated POPs will get the territory.

Migration will work as it is now, but the territory will be flagged as available for migration for all nations that have invested on it.

I like the idea, but I'd shift it to making an investment at a province level (as moving pops has demonstrated, the territory-by-territory approach is tedious). Then, migration could focus on territories neighboring your own, and territories would flip as you detail above. That way, you and your competitors would steadily carve up the province, hopefully without too much border gore. This would help resolve Nominus' issue - spending PI to get a whole province is a much better sell than just a territory.

The only issue I would see with this system is handling depopulation - I have no problem spending 10 PI and some money to settle a province, but to fill in that one blip in the map where 5 successive wars ended up killing the last pop?

 

[Dayvit78]

The only issue I would see with this system is handling depopulation - I have no problem spending 10 PI and some money to settle a province, but to fill in that one blip in the map where 5 successive wars ended up killing the last pop?

This is a separate issue, but one that Paradox should immediately solve by having a rule "no pop death if pop = 1" There will always be some scattered pop in a province. No way a siege could kill every last one of the rural population.

I like the idea of "fighting" with PI for colonization. And it definitely should be on province level if implemented. That aspect of Vic was fun.

 

[Marcus Pica]

I wouild like to see some mechanic to allow for Greek or Phoenician style colonisation along the coast in already occupied territories for some cultures. The territorry would remain part of the native country but with a foreign emporion with some benefit for the colonizer as well as the host especially in terms of trade (needs a major rework). Under certain circumstances the territory could flip to the colonizer control. Events would need to be put in place to script this with some negotiation, buying etc and the colonizer would have to spend gold, PI, POPs.

 

[olivenkranz]

I wouild like to see some mechanic to allow for Greek or Phoenician style colonisation along the coast in already occupied territories for some cultures. The territorry would remain part of the native country but with a foreign emporion with some benefit for the colonizer as well as the host especially in terms of trade (needs a major rework). Under certain circumstances the territory could flip to the colonizer control. Events would need to be put in place to script this with some negotiation, buying etc and the colonizer would have to spend gold, PI, POPs.

"The Hospitable Sea" Mission has that to a limited extent.

 

[DukeLeto42]

I wouild like to see some mechanic to allow for Greek or Phoenician style colonisation along the coast in already occupied territories for some cultures. The territorry would remain part of the native country but with a foreign emporion with some benefit for the colonizer as well as the host especially in terms of trade (needs a major rework). Under certain circumstances the territory could flip to the colonizer control. Events would need to be put in place to script this with some negotiation, buying etc and the colonizer would have to spend gold, PI, POPs.

As an idea:

• Establishing an enclave moves a single citizen of your culture / faith into that territory. The pop is tagged as yours, so it can't be converted / assimilated / promoted / demoted. Migration can now occur to that territory from your nation, with incoming pops similarly tagged.
• Pop proceeds are gained by both nations (to make this truly beneficial), which means a high-civ but nearly overpopulated nation can basically farm out excess pops, while inviting enclaves is a quick way to build up pops
• If all "your" pops die or leave (either through events or conflict), the enclave is destroyed. Conversely, if "your" pops come to outnumber the local pops, the territory would flip to your ownership.
• You could always close it at a major relations cost (probably associated PI / AE as well)

Incidentally, this would also be useful to model foreign enclaves such as the small Hebrew pops scattered around the Mediterranean, and could create a fun game for Judea and the Phoenician cities - rather than challenge the Macedonians, stay as a tributary while the Diadochi wars rage, spreading influence and pops around the world.

 

[olivenkranz]

As an idea:

• Establishing an enclave moves a single citizen of your culture / faith into that territory. The pop is tagged as yours, so it can't be converted / assimilated / promoted / demoted. Migration can now occur to that territory from your nation, with incoming pops similarly tagged.
• Pop proceeds are gained by both nations (to make this truly beneficial), which means a high-civ but nearly overpopulated nation can basically farm out excess pops, while inviting enclaves is a quick way to build up pops
• If all "your" pops die or leave (either through events or conflict), the enclave is destroyed. Conversely, if "your" pops come to outnumber the local pops, the territory would flip to your ownership.
• You could always close it at a major relations cost (probably associated PI / AE as well)

Incidentally, this would also be useful to model foreign enclaves such as the small Hebrew pops scattered around the Mediterranean, and could create a fun game for Judea and the Phoenician cities - rather than challenge the Macedonians, stay as a tributary while the Diadochi wars rage, spreading influence and pops around the world.

For the first point I'd amend that they cant be converted or assimilated: they should be able to, but still belong to your nation. The pops should be able to betray their nation and recruit pops to join you.
Or is that too complicated?

 

[DukeLeto42]

For the first point I'd amend that they cant be converted or assimilated: they should be able to, but still belong to your nation. The pops should be able to betray their nation and recruit pops to join you.
Or is that too complicated?

I'd still say they shouldn't convert / assimilate, because that would prevent the most interesting aspect of the mechanic - preserving enclaves of non-integrated cultures and different religions inside a realm over the course of the game. This would also prevent a growing enclave population in your capitol from having fun effects, like encouraging a major enclave in order to convert to that faith. Additionally, just putting a malus on conversion or assimilation would be a nuisance, trapping the city trying to convert an enclave pop slowly instead of rapidly converting other pops. Finally, preventing conversion / assimilation means you can see at a glance how close the city is to flipping.

 

[olivenkranz]

I'd still say they shouldn't convert / assimilate, because that would prevent the most interesting aspect of the mechanic - preserving enclaves of non-integrated cultures and different religions inside a realm over the course of the game. This would also prevent a growing enclave population in your capitol from having fun effects, like encouraging a major enclave in order to convert to that faith. Additionally, just putting a malus on conversion or assimilation would be a nuisance, trapping the city trying to convert an enclave pop slowly instead of rapidly converting other pops. Finally, preventing conversion / assimilation means you can see at a glance how close the city is to flipping.

Yes, but imo the game needs more dynamic cultures anyway, and it makes no sense that pops that live for generations in foreign lands dont appropriate anything from their hist country....

 

[IsaacCAT]

Yes, but imo the game needs more dynamic cultures anyway, and it makes no sense that pops that live for generations in foreign lands dont appropriate anything from their hist country....

Depends on the country approach to that culture. There was a suggestion for non integrated cultures to not assimilate, and integrated cultures to assimilate with time:

Culture Integration & Assimilation

As currently envisioned culture integration of a people stops the assimilation of that population when integrated. For example as the Romans granting citizenship to the Etruscans stops them assimilation into the roman population. This doesn't...

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