Compatibility with EU3?

[chatnoir17]

Savedata of CK is compatible or convertible with EU2, so why not Sengoku with EU3?

I know, the compatibility of CK is not perfect and has many problems. However by Sengoku things would be far easier.
We should create only history datas about Japan (country and provinces files) and suit them to EU3. In fact it is a work that players could do with own hands if they have some knowledges about mod. But it would be great if the game has a "official" fanction for that.

In addition this compatibility is important for regional games like Sengoku. Some people might want to keep playing as japanese ruler even after the unification of the land. The connection with EU3 could give them a chance, without adding extra maps in Sengoku.

Of course there are still some problems. What should be flags? How should we change savedata in Sengoku with the emperor and the shogunate system in EU3? I hope developers could find some good solutions about them.

So how about this idea?

 

[vadermath]

Errr, the shogunate system is already in EU3.

Edit: Never mind, I see you have DW.

 

[chatnoir17]

Errr, the shogunate system is already in EU3.

Edit: Never mind, I see you have DW.

The shogunate system in Sengoku might be a bit different from EU3 DW, so there would be some problems if the game really has the compatibility.

Thanks for reply anyway.

 

[Negru Voda]

probably not really gonna happen.

The conversion/continuity/compatibility request is one of those eternal things that always pop up with every new PI game, and never is implemented.
PI tells us it would require them to sacrifice too much effort into it, instead of other game features.

I agree with PI on this. Look at all their vanilla versions: nice and all, but usually require a series of patches. (Note: I get the feeling this is probably due to PI's limited development resources -after all, they are a relatively small developer, for a relatively small market) Imagine if they'd try and implement this as well. We would probably end up with a lesser game, and a buggy converter. Furthermore, PI sells to a small market. Investing in designing a converter would not improve their sales much, if at all.

The converter is mostly something for the modders to figure out, and only for the most die-hard to use.

But then again, I'm the sort of guy that rarely plays campaigns all the way to the end.
Sorry to shoot you down like this

 

[chatnoir17]

Never mind! If Paradox games have always converter, there would be no need of such a thread like this.

Yeah, I understand your arguments. I also have tried some converters and found many difficulties to fit one large scaled game to an another.
However Sengoku would be relatively small scaled game with 350 areas by now, and in EU3 Japan has about 30 provinces even with DW.
I'm not programmer sadly, so I can't estimate how much manpowers would be required for development, but efforts of making a converter to EU3 could be smaller than that of CK-EU, EU-VIC or VIC-HoI. (I really hope so.)
I wish that this compatibility would motivate some people to buy both Sengoku and EU3, too.

 

[DarthJF]

Eh, what would be the point? Play as a unified Japan in EU3? Because Sengoku Japan is going to have so many provinces and clans that non-unified Japan would be impossible to fit on EU3 Japan map.

So basically the converter would just start regular EU3 game with unified Japan without daimyos at 1600's or whenever the game ends? Since Sengoku game would have no impact on the world outside Japan.

 

[chatnoir17]

Eh, what would be the point? Play as a unified Japan in EU3? Because Sengoku Japan is going to have so many provinces and clans that non-unified Japan would be impossible to fit on EU3 Japan map.

So basically the converter would just start regular EU3 game with unified Japan without daimyos at 1600's or whenever the game ends? Since Sengoku game would have no impact on the world outside Japan.

Well, there would be some ways, I guess.

I.Shogun exists in Sengoku
-Shogun has unified Japan -> unified Japan appears in EU3 (DW)
-Shogun has not unified the land -> The shogunate system is alive in EU3. Shogun, represented by Minamoto clan, keeps his territory of Sengoku, and the other clans in Sengoku would be integrated into three clans of EU3 (Fujiwara, Taira, Tachibana). History files of these three clans would represent the datas of strong daimyos of Sengoku.

II. Shogun doesnt exist in Sengoku
-The shogunate system is also alive in this case. All daimyos of EU3 exist, but it would be nice that borders could represent that of Sengoku.

In any case foreign powers dont have to be changed in EU3, since Sengoku would have an isolated map and no influence on foreign countries, as you said.

 

[Maginor]

If Paradox made a converter, nobody would be satisfied with it anyway. And this is something that would cost a lot of money for them to do.

 

[chatnoir17]

If Paradox made a converter, nobody would be satisfied with it anyway.

Why can you say that? We have only one example CK -> EU2.
And at least I would be satisfied with it, because it is a proof that Paradox pays attention even on such a thing, which might be trivial and have low priority, nevertheless requirs a lot of costs.

 

[safferli]

Why can you say that? We have only one example CK -> EU2.

There was a V1->HoI2 converter that was poor. It left the HoI game without any AI files, if I remember correctly.

And at least I would be satisfied with it, because it is a proof that Paradox pays attention even on such a thing, which might be trivial and have low priority, nevertheless requirs a lot of costs.

Personally, I'd vastly prefer Paradox to pay attention to larger things with high priority with the costs these "trivial" things incur. If the choice is 1 month more dev time for actual gamestuff or the converter, the answer is pretty clear.

 

[chatnoir17]

There was a V1->HoI2 converter that was poor. It left the HoI game without any AI files, if I remember correctly.
Personally, I'd vastly prefer Paradox to pay attention to larger things with high priority with the costs these "trivial" things incur. If the choice is 1 month more dev time for actual gamestuff or the converter, the answer is pretty clear.

Thanks for this information. I have never tried the Vic-HoI converter, but I could easily imagine that it brings a bad result.



Ok, I resume opinions of your posts:
The cost of the developing a conversion programm could be high. And it might be not enough good even if done, since we have already seen two (negative) examples.
But again, the conversion of Sengoku to EU3 would be easier, because the provinces of Sengoku are 350, about 1/3 of CK and 1/7 of HoI.

In additon, the developers said that the game has no naval units. It means we have a very little hope about including the Imjin War in the vanilla.
Some people wish an expansion for that, but I'm not sure that the Paradox would release such a map expansion kit like online RPGs.
Even if it would be possible, the cost for developping it might be higher than making a conversion tool.

So it seems to me that the convertibility to EU3 is the key feature to connect feudal Japan after the unification by Shogun to the world.

 

[safferli]

So it seems to me that the convertibility to EU3 is the key feature to connect feudal Japan after the unification by Shogun to the world.

You don't need a converter for that. Simply mod out the Shogunate faction out of DW, and put your Daimyo name as Japan ruler at game start.

 

[chatnoir17]

You don't need a converter for that. Simply mod out the Shogunate faction out of DW, and put your Daimyo name as Japan ruler at game start.

It's also my opinion in OP,

But it would be great if the game has a(n) "official" fanction for that.

Modding out the shogunate faction of DW with datas of Sengoku would be a bit more than a hand-made work as you mentioned, since these country files contain not just daimyo's name, but informations like former rulers and heirs too. Adding them requires some minutes.
In addition, many people including me could not mod well, although it seems that only I am the supporter of converting.

 

[Galle]

Sengoku to EU3 conversion would definitely be a thing for modders to handle. At the very least, EU3's Japan would need to have more daimyo tags in case there's more than four clans left at the end of your Sengoku game. Sengoku is also contemporary with EU3, which might cause some problems. At the very least, you'd be missing out on the first two hundred years of the game.

Still, it'd be nice to see a mega-campaign that took Sengoku as a starting point instead of CK, if only for variety's sake.

 

[chatnoir17]

Sengoku to EU3 conversion would definitely be a thing for modders to handle. At the very least, EU3's Japan would need to have more daimyo tags in case there's more than four clans left at the end of your Sengoku game.

Many clans in Sengoku (they are about 50, small number to CK) could be integrated into four daimyos in DW which represent groups of clans under the name of four famous families, though fitting their datas into the rest of the world would be difficult.

Sengoku is also contemporary with EU3, which might cause some problems. At the very least, you'd be missing out on the first two hundred years of the game.

Why do I miss periods in EU3 which I have already played in Sengoku since playing a japanese clan in Sengoku would be more exciting than that of EU3.

 

[Galle]

Many clans in Sengoku (they are about 50, small number to CK) could be integrated into four daimyos in DW which represent groups of clans under the name of four famous families, though fitting their datas into the rest of the world would be difficult.

Because I think that loss of "resolution" kind of defeats the point of having a converter in the first place. The point of a converter is so that you can bring the history you created in one game into another, instead of using actual history in that second game (or as close to it as Paradox gets). This works well in converting Crusader Kings to EU3, because EU3 has very high resolution in Europe. There are plenthy of possible countries there, and EU3 can open with a very different Europe from the real one if you convert from CK. But EU3 unmodded, even with Divine Wind just doesn't have the depth to properly carry over your game.

Or, less rambling version: A Sengoku to EU3 converter is a good idea, but it would be much better if it was unofficial and combined with a mod that added more factions to EU3 Japan (yours, for example) so that your game could be better represented.

Why do I miss periods in EU3 which I have already played in Sengoku since playing a japanese clan in Sengoku would be more exciting than that of EU3.

True, and even CK has a bit of overlap with EU3's earliest starting date. It's just something that would have to be handled with care, that's all.

 

[chatnoir17]

Because I think that loss of "resolution" kind of defeats the point of having a converter in the first place. The point of a converter is so that you can bring the history you created in one game into another, instead of using actual history in that second game (or as close to it as Paradox gets). This works well in converting Crusader Kings to EU3, because EU3 has very high resolution in Europe. There are plenthy of possible countries there, and EU3 can open with a very different Europe from the real one if you convert from CK.

Precise converting datas between different games, especially large scaled games like CK or EU is truely a fascinating thing. Sadly we can't expect this by Sengoku converter since the game handles a small region. But I see an another value of converter: connection to larger world (what I always repeat in this thread). Converters of Paradox games, especially the CK-EU one fascinates me because it opens regional euro-middleeast map (CK) to the entire world map (EU).
By the way I played a Genghis Khan game by Koei long time ago. It had two scenarios (unification of mongorian clans and world conquest) and players could convert datas of the unification scenario to the world conquest one. That was really exellent.

Or, less rambling version: A Sengoku to EU3 converter is a good idea, but it would be much better if it was unofficial and combined with a mod that added more factions to EU3 Japan (yours, for example) so that your game could be better represented.

I agree. I'm not programmer (sigh), but if anyone wants to make a converter after the release of Sengoku, I would like to help her/him/them.