• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Rejected Spawn

Recruit
Aug 31, 2019
1
0
This game could have been so much more appealing to so many more players if there had been someone on board with a better understanding of gamer psychology. This forum is seemingly abandoned by the devs, just like the Steam discussion board, this behavior only further reinforces the bad image of both game and studio. However I will still delve into several of the key factors that caused this game to be a flop instead of a gold mine, not because the game itself can still become a gold mine but because I want to leave a record of what went wrong in hopes that SOMEONE will learn something useful from it and maybe at least a future game will be better as a result.

Problem #1: Temporary vs. Permanent unfair conditions.
Not only is the terrain layout hidden until the map has been generated and the player is already about to land, it has also silently dictated the exact breakthroughs the player will encounter. Given that the terrain is partially possible to alter, it's only partially Permanent but can still be more than enough for a player to want to retry in order to get a more enjoyable location. What's far worse is the breakthrough generation; some breakthroughs essentially turn the entire game balance on its head while some others are so useless that it's glaringly obvious they were only included to pad out the catalogue. Had all breakthroughs been unimportant this would not have lead to the current issue: The players KNOW that some maps will be several times more enjoyable to their play style - this is in the neighbourhood of "FOMO", the "Fear Of Missing Out" that some games companies exploit to milk money from players by having timed offers for exclusives that are then removed forever. Rather than spend money to find out which map coordinates generate desirable breakthroughs the player is forced to progress for up to dozens of hours on a map to get this information - followed by the very high probability that it turned out the full set of breakthroughs was in fact not desirable and these dozens of hours were completely wasted.
Solution: Add an additional "layer" of breakthroughs.
The research function comes with a rather annoying quirk; by the time you have nothing left to research you most likely have a ridiculous research speed that is utterly useless. Rather than let this go to waste it would make sense to add a single extra row to each column - a very expensive "final" research that costs far more points than the wonders; a key that opens the remaining breakthroughs for research. Of course these "extra" breakthroughs should come at a staggering research cost, they should also NOT automatically start if no active research is selected so that a player who doesn't wish for a certain breakthrough to be researched can effectively keep it blocked. Of course the breakthroughs specifically relating to robotics should only be revealed by the "key" in the robotics column and so on.

Problem #2: Resource management.
For those who only try to speedrun up to the point of establishing a certain number of colonists, or whatever goal they might have, the problem is barely noticeable. For those who play to build a beautiful utopia, carved from the deadly red sand and carefully shaped with love for a long time, the problem becomes increasingly unbearable and absurd. Without the Mohole your colony WILL die eventually but it stops producing if one of its outputs fills up, this leads to a ridiculous situation of deliberately building useless things that require metal maintenance in order to be able to continue extracting rare metals. In addition to this you end up with ridiculous amounts of waste rock that piles sky high and nowhere to continuously get rid of it in a reliable way.
Solution: Alterations to building behaviours and access.
The Mohole should reasonably keep producing metals or rare metals even if only one of them has filled up by instead spitting out a greater amount of waste rock - which would represent waste rock full of whatever resource it can't currently mine. Of course the Mohole should stall if the waste rock slot fills up or if both metal and rare metal slots fill up. To combat the ever growing mountain of waste rock a player can opt to burn much of it to improve the atmosphere if the Green Planet DLC is installed, but only up to the point where the atmosphere reaches 100% - at which point all burning of waste rock stalls. While it's possible to keep burning if the atmosphere bleeds off continuously due to a lack of magnetic shielding, this approach is still "throttled" and you can't both keep the atmosphere at 100% and keep burning at the exact pace your colony needs to prevent a buildup. The best solution to this would be to change the special building that only Brazil has that can extract rare metals from waste rock and instead make this unlockable for ALL sponsors - additionally it should come with a reskinned version that can extract regular metals in the same fashion.

Problem #3: Nonsensical randomness.
Challenges in games typically greatly depend on unpredictability in certain factors to keep players on their toes and ensure that there is no "one size fits all" solution to winning, however not all random factors are created equal. The worst offenders are the "cooldowns" on terraforming projects; while it seems perfectly reasonable that it takes a little while to spot any nearby ice asteroids that can be captured, it can take a very unreasonable amount of time before it's possible to do this again. Far worse offenders are the magnetic shield and space mirror projects, there is NO reason to have ANY cooldown on these as it doesn't make a shred of sense - the only speed bump should be the resources it costs to launch these things. The game should also be more attentive to what's going on, ex: once you reach 100% water there can still be a remaining (unstarted) project to capture ice asteroids - this should be removed right away.

Additional smaller issues.
- Dozers should pick up scattered waste rock and bring it to storage if they're on auto and no landscaping is going on anywhere.
- Ability to turn off notifications for all buildings that are not set to High priority, because sometimes you need something running on normal priority but it will be unavoidably stalled at regular intervals.
- Ability to hide the icons for resources on the map. For players who want to build a beautiful colony in a beautiful landscape, those ugly cartoon splotches can ruin the entire scenery.
- There is no building that can keep feeding vegetation to the planet all the way to 100% and it doesn't grow by itself even after it has gained a solid hold, there should really be either a new building that spreads seeds high in the air or an additional mode in Forestation Plants that lets them consume double seeds and double power in return for a tiny bit of the seeds being carried around Mars by the wind.

There are numerous other things I could go into across the game but all of the above is the only stuff that should be easy enough to implement and should make a significant difference for a significant chunk of players. These changes would be far too late to generate a real "boom" in sales but it would go a LONG way to proving that the studio is competent, attentive of fans and learns from mistakes which has an impact on sales of future titles.
 
Upvote 0
There are already mods for reseaching breakthroughs. You can set them up as you feel balanced. I set my omega telescope to give me one random breakthrough every 10 sols which in hindsight might be a bit too much. They scale up to 80k RP to research. Then again by the time you're churning through these projects it means you've already won a long time ago so I don't necessarly feel it's unbalanced. just icing on the cake and quality of life things like eventually getting lake vaporators somewhere between sol 200-300.

With green planet I find metals to be the limiting factor in my base building in the early late game. Moho simply can't keep up with factories churning out vast quantities of machine marts for the remaining wonders, terraforming buildings, rockets, domes ect. My early game stockpile usually dwindles rapidly to nearly zero by sol 120-150. But even if you have a massive stockpile you can build the large depots which will each max out after 35 sols'ish of moho production assuming you have no demand whatsoever. In practice my longest games run to about 400-600 sols. To literally turn the map into a Gaia level forest like in Avatar. In those games I might have 2 or 3 depots full of metal at the end. That doesn't take a lot of space on the map to build. or effort.

As for waste rock again there is no issues in the vanilla game. If you need to to literally burn waste rock you can build waste rock processors. By end game I literally have only 5-6 of them and it's more then enough. I cycle them on and off every few sols (ctrl click). If they are left on all the time the atmosphere building will just run out of supply which is undesirable. Once they have been left off and I notice rubble piling around the moho I will just cycle them on. Shuttles will bring waste rock from the temporary waste rock depot with a desire of 0 adjacent to the moho to the actual waste rock depot immediatly adjacent to the waste rock processing facility that has a desire set for 180. In a Few sol's I'll be close to zero waste rock again. I build 5-6 because I usually have a lot of cleanup to do to make my base pretty after the midgame.

My only issues with balance is water and even more so vegetation. Lakes do literally nothing and should be buffed. Large lakes require a ton of water and a large amount of map space and generate only 0.0000001% water per sol it seems. And vegetation is attrocious. Vegetation should increase exponentially and it hard caps at 40% forcing you to just wait on the RNG timer for the next mission. I also use a mod for that that keeps the forestation plants going after 40% but it's ridiculously time consuming to get from 40% to 100% unmodded. With several dozen forestation plants spread around the map (eventually) I can get 40% in a decent enough pace but after that it takes forever when the opposite should be true. Water is easy enough to generate by just nuking the poles and crashing ice asteroids. You can speed this up by building more rockets which take a hefty amount of metal (amongst all the other projects I have going ) With player input you can however do something like opening another mining dome.

Vegetation on the other hand is abyssmal. Part of this is due to my playstyle. I guess you're supposed to get terraforming early I usually do 1000%+ runs where the key priorities in the early game is scrubbers and moho and getting the population techs to just survive and not age out. Terraforming early is not a luxury I can afford and when I start at sol 150+ I'm already slowly running out of things to do making the wait times on the RNG vegetation misisons nearly unbearable. No player input in the unmodded game can speed this up.

What I'd like aside from the vegetation and lake changes is a DLC that adds different map types according to geography. Landing on the poles should have noticable gameplay effects vs landing on valles marinaris. Some locations should have completely unviable wind or solar power. Other areas should have amazing output for one power type but not the other. You should be able to tell based on the map more or less where on the planet you landed. On the poles you should have large pregenerated lakes that will form after you heat the planet enough. Or an extremely long night cycle due to having such short days on the poles. In valles marinares the maps should be long twisty canyons with a bonus to solar output so close to the equator. These are just ideas but you get the gist.

Also the MDS laser defense should be a level 1 tech. Every other disaster you can prepare for. You can build more 02/H20 tanks to weather a dust storm on Sol 1. Heaters are a level 1 tech and those with building an excess power supply can counter cold waves. But meteor storms..... If you get unlucky they can nuke your base and end your playthrough if RNGsus decides you will get nuked at sol 15-20. Theres no way to get lasers on time for the first several showers. I literally had them destroy my power farm the drone hub and my water and oxygen tanks during a cold wave at sol 60-ish with leaks everywhere -300 power and no oxygen or water in my domes all within several hours. Bad RNG playthough over. The tech should sit in the 1-5k range so you can prepare (if you choose too) Those lasers certainly aren't cheap to build or maintain. Maybe a cheap (researchwise) inferior MDS precursor system with less coverage so you would have to prioritize which building you want protected.

Oh and Twisters. They should go away with atmosphere progress. It's damn annoying to constantly keep a wachful eye on the rovers so they don't run into one. I usually turn them off nowadays cause they don't really add difficulty other than taxing my attention. They almost never actually attack my base and if they do one or two buildings go into maintance before it dissapates (inconsequential) but they are extremely good at sniping my rovers until I can send a commander to fix it requiring my full attention on the commander until he is outside the area they spawn in.
 
Last edited: