Concerns about adding China

[zhangjim]

It occurs to me that an easy way to handle it would be for the Chinese emperor to be an emperor of emperors, with another king at the empire level controlling several sub-kings, then dukes, and finally counts. In the end, with so many people who could usurp from above and below, it shouldn't be a problem for China to submit to the Mongols. I think they continued using the traditional conscription of starving, ragged, and primitive peasants even up to Victoria 3 and the Opium Wars. Not to mention the issues with communism and trying to develop steel mills in their backyard by smelting low-quality iron, which triggered one of the worst famines in human history.

These few sentences encompass all imaginable stereotypes.

Do you think France has always been defeated by Britain? Or will their army only surrender?

After experiencing the chaos between the Tang Dynasty and the Song Dynasty, the loyalty and stability of the military became more important than combat effectiveness. This is purely a political factor, after all, no one likes military coups.
Regarding the issue of steel, there are some game related elements worth exploring: the danger of bureaucracy. A mature bureaucratic system means a large interest group, and it's hard to imagine how many terrible things these bureaucrats can do without modern media supervision.
If the game design is good, then it won't be too easy for you to become the emperor of China. It is highly likely that they will put most of their income into their own pockets and only distribute a small portion to you. Or in order to cater to your policies, using excessive execution methods to make the accounting data look better, but the catastrophic consequences are concealed. Or they may adopt a passive response strategy in order to undermine the new policy, intentionally causing everything to fall into failure. The scariest situation is that the front line is constantly retreating, but your ministers only tell you 'victory' every day.
These are all real occurrences. Do you think these situations will be displayed in the game? CK is a game that focuses on personal life, and it cannot provide you with false financial statements：you won't realize until the beginning of the war that four fifths of your army doesn't exist.

 

[luo]

I think the more basic reason is that with the ancient Chinese bureaucracy, the empire couldn't manage too many areas. In other words, it's a matter of Government Capacity. In a situation where post stations could only be relied upon to deliver information, any expansion beyond Tang territory would have cost far more than what was gained. It's hard to go beyond a little bit. Because the administrative body itself also incurs costs.

Communication costs are one of the reasons, but not the main one. At the first peak of the Tang Dynasty (660AD - 690AD) , the territory was directly expanded to the Aral Sea and the entire Afghanistan, and the local area was managed and taxed through governors and garrisons appointed directly by the emperor. The distance from these places to the capital of the Tang Dynasty, Chang'an, far exceeded the distance from the capital of the Arab Empire, which proves this point.

Compared to the inability of the empire to manage more regions, the main reason lies in economic necessity. The Chinese emperor almost directly controlled all regions that could produce sufficient economic benefits, and it was unnecessary to use the same administrative efficiency as within China for other regions.

The Chinese emperor's control China was much higher than that of other regions at that time, relying on its bureaucratic system. This allowed them to obtain troops and taxes more efficiently in the wealthiest East Asian plains, and gain wealth and power that other countries could not imagine. However, this direct rule system was too costly for less affluent regions and may not be worth the cost.

Therefore, the emperor generally chooses to establish military control and administrative management zones in important strategic directions and areas where a smaller number of officials can be maintained, such as the Anxi Protectorate and the Beiting Protectorate, which are jointly managed by the administrative governor and the garrison; Choosing to maintain political and economic subordination in a less important direction to collect taxes, similar to the vassal relationship in Europe, such as the treatment of Khitan and Xi people in the early Tang Dynasty; In other areas of extreme poverty or with significant cultural and religious differences and no vested interests, only political subordination and annual tribute are maintained, such as the tusi in southwestern China.

It should be noted that the question of whether to choose to conquer Korea and Vietnam is more about the ideological needs of the central dynasty and other threats, such as the establishment of the Andong Protectorate in northern Korea after the Tang Dynasty conquered Goguryeo, and the occupation of parts of southern Korea after the war with Japan. However, due to its relationship with Silla, it did not continue to conquer the entire Korea. The Yuan Dynasty also conquered Korea and established provinces, while the Ming Dynasty received special tribute treatment as a "non conquering country" 不征之国 due to Korea's alliance in the war against the Yuan Dynasty, and granted Korea a higher imperial title of nobility as a representative of the tribute country.

 

[ChowMeinDelivery]

Steel was produced too in India and so on.

I think that whether technology is a secret or a knowledge is the criterion by which we evaluate technology in history. China's smelting technology does not depend on special mineral deposits or local resource conditions, but is widely present in all parts of the country where metal needs to be smelted, and there are state agencies to regulate production.

Sure, India produced steel, but it was pretty much exclusively crucible steel, which is pretty bad in terms of scalability. China was using blast furnaces and a method pretty similar to the Bessemer process in the 11th century. Wootz steel is pretty good in terms of quality, but not all Indian crucible steel was Wootz.

I think that's probably why your senator can't tell the difference between Singapore and China.
The Chinese Singaporeans and other Chinese living in Southeast Asia are the remnants of that maritime China.

I don't think he's claimed to be an American. Also, this seems unnecessarily political for this forum.

This also needs to be put into a perspective, Chineese had a good technology for seafaring but not as advanced as others or less than others , they had some key advancements and some lacks in others, to put for example of seafaring civs that had a different technological focus where each of them was ahead of the other in a specifical field.

• Navigational Advancement:
  China ( Magnetic Compass, Watertight Bulkheads )

I'd like to add that Chinese ships had rudders as early as the 1st century. The Arabs and Europeans did not have them until the late 10th and late 13th centuries respectively.

• Military Naval Strength:
  Byzantines (Greek Fire, Dromon )

In the timeframe of the game, Dromons probably weren't any better than the other galleys in use in the Mediterranean and on their way to obsolescence. They were slower than the galleys everyone else was using [in the late 9th century] (6-7 knots vs 8-10 knots) and of a similar size or smaller (30m vs 30-40m).

• Extensive Exploration & Colonization:
  Vikings (Clinker-built Hulls , Sunstone ) & Polynesians (Catamaran,waves pattern tech Navigation Methods)

Clinker-built hulls weren't unique to the Vikings and were also used by the Frisians, Saxons, and Anglo-Saxons, though I suppose they were of the same origin. I'm surprised you didn't feel the need to mention longships here considering the sizeable speed advantage they had.

Catamarans were not unique to Polynesians and the Greeks built one for war in the 3rd century BC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessarakonteres) and they were commonly used in Ptolemaic Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamegos).

 

[Song of Falcon and Owl]

I understand that although I am Chinese, I am also hesitant about whether paradox can do well in China. In my opinion, the best solution for China is to use a Jade dragon outside the map as in ck2, and it is enough to strengthen and adjust part of the design and copywriting. I am very satisfied with its sufficient strength and style.
But since paradox is determined to expand into China, let's hope they find the right balance between the three forces of history, gameplay, and balance.