Conquer Rome, claim Pope vassal land bug

[Takkik]

Found a strange bug that prevent me to get my claim on a land : as Mathilda of Toscana I claimed the second county of Spotello and then after the truce I got Rome. Now the pope just stand in Rome without land but still 2 vassals. Later I got the duchy of Pisa and want to claim the last territory of the duchy that in hands of a vassal of the pope but i can't declare war! The vassal isnt independant so the declare war is gray, and since the pope (his liege) dont have any land, I can't declare war with him either. So i'm stuck with my claim, impossible to get the land. Look like a work around could be to give a title to the pope for be able to declare the war but with the new 10 years truce that make me loose a land for lot of time (havent tryed).
Need to be able to declare war to the pope even if he doesnt have land, or he need to loose his vassals if he dont have any land, or perhaps he should get the county of a vassal when you took Rome?

 

[Marfig]

What a mess.

The Pope is the supreme rule of the Papal States, so in fact he should have land since you only claimed Rome (Spoleto isn't supposed to be a part of the Papal States when you start a 1066 game). On the other hand, Rome only became central to the Holy See in late the 14th century, when the Popes moved from southern France and into Rome.

The Papal States were all independent states under the the Pope ruling. You should be able to claim land (during centuries many did) without having to go through the Pope. The unique nature of the Papal States may not agree with the game current mechanics. But I think the bug resides in the fact the rulers of the Papal States aren't made independent on the start of a 1066 game.

As for the Pope himself, he shouldn't definitely be in Rome, but Avignon.

 

[Swuboo]

(Spoleto isn't supposed to be a part of the Papal States when you start a 1066 game)

Rome and Orvieto are part of the de jure duchy of Spoleto, which is controlled by Mathilde of Tuscany in a 1066 start. That's what Takkik meant.

That said, the Pope's behavior when he doesn't have a fief needs to be adjusted; in my experience even if there are bishoprics that are his direct vassals, he won't assign himself as successor. The only way a landless Pope will gain land is if he inherits a castle Barony or a County/Duchy, or if you give him some.

 

[Takkik]

Swuboo right, I began with spotelo and the duchy title. The problem his that you can only declare war on the liege/supreme ruler, and the liege of the ruler of the county I can claim is the Pope, but since this one is without land, he's like just a court member at Rome and I dont have the option to declare war on him :/

Look like in the game the Pope is hard coded to be only in Rome, so even if you conquer Rome he's staying here like a court member. That just seem weird since like Marfig said Rome wasn't always the papal state. He should be able to move to one of his Vassal county or the vassals should become independants prince bishops without liege.

Will try later to give a county to the pope see if I can then attack him again, but seems a weird way to solve the problem :/ (Will exil him in Africa I think ^^)

EDIT: look like the Pope can move finaly, after the actual pope die the new one was in a county in germany. Must depend of succession? Tried to assassinate the old pope time ago but new Pope was still in Rome, and now it the new one get somewhere else. If the new Pope that is elected hold a county, look like that solve the problem