Construction companies

[IsaacCAT]

I understand the problem with construction companies as a non government building. What is first the egg or the hen?

Without a construction building nobody can construct anything and it is fundamental to drive the game, hence the decision to make it player only.

It is also realistic that construction points are shared between states and not a local good because construction companies can work anywhere, moving their labour and machinery to the construction site.

To have construction buildings work as the other buildings we should have a supply and demand for construction points (the good produced by construction buildings)

With the new ownership change in 1.7, construction buildings could be privatized and become a regular building that the market could even import and export their output, construction points.

Once built by the government, the building can be sold to investors.

In the market tab, a new trade good, construction points with a base value of 30 will go up and down depending on supply and demand. The cost to construct a building will remain 200, 400 CP etc.. but construction points will be paid in money depending on the market price, base value +/- 75%. If there is a shortage of construction points, there will be a penalty on the output like the other goods.

Whenever the player wants to build something, it will work the same as now but instead of CP it will pay money to construct buildings. Same construction queue, everything the same but with private construction buildings and a new trade good, construction points.

At the start of the game, each state or each POP will provide a minimum CP to go by, the same as now we start with 10 CP without construction sectors.

The demand for CP will account the current in construction buildings and the future construction projects in the queue. This will allow the player to push the prices of construction points well above profitable value. However, the government will only pay the CP used every day/week so future buildings are not paid in advance. The same as all other buildings when they sell/buy their trade goods.

PS: and yes, construction points will be affected by MAPI

PS: because the machinery and mobilization required for the personnel to the construction site, the convoys for export/import construction points should be double those of engines or ships.

 

[IsaacCAT]

With construction buildings being private companies and not public employees, the player and the AI may only build them to get rid of peasants as fast as possible.

However, the overconstruction of construction buildings will increase the price of input goods to the point of making them unprofitable even if the price of construction points is +75% the base price.

Once input goods are well supplied, the next problem that I can foresee is construction overcapacity that brokes the nation. Because the amount of buildings that can be constructed every week simultaneously is function of construction points, a long construction queue by the player will keep construction prices high and profitable but the weekly cost of constructing so many buildings per week will be too heavy on the budget.

The AI private sector will keep increasing construction buildings capacity even if the player does not. The only solution I can see is to decrease demand over supply and make construction builldings less profitable when this happens.

The way construction demand is calculated is by adding up all the construction points in the construction queue (public, private, imported and exported). To reduce the bill in the public finances and the demand for construction points the player would have to reduce the length of its construction queue.

No more adding 1000 buildings in the construction queue. This might be a problem as it will require players to visit the construction queue more often, but for me it is a welcome issue in exchange for having private construction companies simulated in the game.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Another possible consequence of private construction companies is that private investment builds more construction capacity faster than now that is limited by the government paying for all the construction employees and materials.

This may speed up AI development of profitable buildings thanks to 1.7 autonomous investment changes. No more oil or rubber fields to develop because underdeveloped public only construction sectors.

 

[Prob32]

When we go to revisit construction I’d like to also see buildings split out from the industries they contain.

Buildings themselves are capital and the downsizing of buildings, especially now that the private sector can just destroy them literally destroys the underlying asset.

We need to be able to repurpose some building types to others, textiles or tool factories for example or engines into war machine factory.

I want to see growing companies competing on purchasing unprofitable buildings listed for sale + some construction costs against new build construction pricing.

 

[MatthewP]

I don't know. I am very hesitant to turn a UI/convenience feature (having a queue to remember what buildings I want in what order) into a game mechanic. Why is it necessary? On top of the inconvenience, it seems unrealistic and gamey that the government declaring "I'm going to build 1000 textile mills...someday" in 1840 Sokoto would cause a sky-high construction boom forever. Shouldn't demand by based on what's actually under construction?

Also, not an objection but just clarification, in this system, how would the player set how much money they want to spend? Or would it be a number of construction points? I guess either could work with some sort of slider but it's a departure from the nearly universal law "buildings are the things that create demand" so worth being explicit about. Edit: on second thought, I guess it should be a number of construction points. Otherwise you get into the price impacts demand impacts price loop.

Then, same question for the private queue. Do they just wait until they can afford a building with current prices, build it at full speed, then pause if they run out of money? Seems like the simplest option. But it does mean there would be no private "queue" anymore, since every building paid for would be under construction - another argument that the player queue shouldn't be considered. And probably some weird pendulum swings of prices as they'll start building -> price goes up -> run out of money -> some or all buildings stop -> prices go down...

 

[IsaacCAT]

I don't know. I am very hesitant to turn a UI/convenience feature (having a queue to remember what buildings I want in what order) into a game mechanic. Why is it necessary? On top of the inconvenience, it seems unrealistic and gamey that the government declaring "I'm going to build 1000 textile mills...someday" in 1840 Sokoto would cause a sky-high construction boom forever. Shouldn't demand by based on what's actually under construction?

About demand or for what it matters, prices, being calculated with future contracts, it is clear that this is the case. However, I am open to set demand with the current construction by CP used / CP available and not any future contract.

How many simultaneous buildings can be constructed can be determined as it is now with max weekly construction progress per building or with a new capacity that may be affected by construction buildings PMs, calculated by # construction buildings levels / # simultaneous construction sites.

Also, not an objection but just clarification, in this system, how would the player set how much money they want to spend? Or would it be a number of construction points? I guess either could work with some sort of slider but it's a departure from the nearly universal law "buildings are the things that create demand" so worth being explicit about. Edit: on second thought, I guess it should be a number of construction points. Otherwise you get into the price impacts demand impacts price loop.

Then, same question for the private queue. Do they just wait until they can afford a building with current prices, build it at full speed, then pause if they run out of money? Seems like the simplest option. But it does mean there would be no private "queue" anymore, since every building paid for would be under construction - another argument that the player queue shouldn't be considered. And probably some weird pendulum swings of prices as they'll start building -> price goes up -> run out of money -> some or all buildings stop -> prices go down...

The player will spend money in construction points that will have a cost of base value +/- price variation following supply and demand, the same as any other good now.

Not sliders, but buildings in the queue being constructed. For example, if you are constructing 3 buildings with a total cost of 400 CP each and each CP has a cost of 35 for the duration of this example with 100 CP being dedicated to the first site, 50 CP to the second site and 25 CP to the third site you will be spending the following in your weekly budget until the buildings are finished:

Total spending week1 = 100x35 + 50x35 + 25x35 = 6.125
Total spending week2 = 100x35 + 50x35 + 25x35 = 6.125
Total spending week3 = 100x35 + 50x35 + 25x35 = 6.125
Total spending week3 = 100x35 + 50x35 + 25x35 = 6.125
Total spending week4 = 100x35 + 50x35 = 5.250
Total spending week5 = 100x35 + 50x35 = 5.250
Total spending week6 = 100x35 = 3.500
Total spending week7 = 100x35 = 3.500
Total spending week8 = 0

The same goes for the private construction queue.

The pendulum swings of prices may happen if both construction queues are empty and no other nation is buying any CP from your construction companies. But this applies to all of your other goods as well.

 

[PDX_Pelly]

You've definitely put a lot of thought into this suggestion, especially looking at the weekly spending matrix. We experimented with private construction before in early development, however now we have the building ownership changes it is a bit of a different playing field. I'll pass this on, but I am very unsure on what is possible or if we would want to do it

 

[IsaacCAT]

Thank you for the reference, I did not remember it and it is very interesting to read it again.

The benefit I see with private construction buildings it is to integrate them into the game system hopefully optimizing the use of CP for all nations.

One of the problems identified in Iachek post (see below) was probably related to not having an autonomous construction queue at release that would pick up CP not used by the player. Now that this is not anymore an option and the investment pool uses CP or that construction buildings can export their CP, the demand for CP can be smoothed out:

"fewer buildings you construct at once, the cheaper it is to construct those buildings, making it optimal (but very inconvenient) to only construct one thing at a time"

This would still be true in the extreme case of command economy (no CP for the private sector) and no trade routes exporting CP (isolationism).

In this case the player will be incentivized to have an oversized construction sector building only one or two sites. We know that this will make the buildings unprofitable, unless subsidized, and POPs will be fired to reach equilibrium. However, subsidizing will defeat the purpose of constructing on the cheap by gaming the system.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Another matter that can help balancing the system is how CP price is calculated using supply/demand:

If CP price is only calculated using the current construction, we can only increase its price by exporting CP. Without considering trade:

• Demand = Supply if there are enough buildings being constructed to use all the CP following the max weekly construction progress.
• Demand > Supply never
• Demand < Supply if there are not enough buildings being constructed to use all the CP following the max weekly construction progress

If CP price is calculated using the current and future construction, we can manipulate its price by adding/substracting buildings in the player construction queue. Without considering trade:

• Demand = Supply if the cost of all buildings in the construction queues is equivalent to the CP available
• Demand > Supply if the cost of all buildings in the construction queues is more than the CP available. In case there is a shortage of CP, there will be a penalty on the construction queue for all buildings being constructed.
• Demand < Supply if the sum of all CP of the buildings in the construction queues is less than the available CP

PS: In the second case, players will not be able to stack many buildings in the construction queue if they do not want to provoke a shortage. To avoid this annoyance, demand for buidlings could be slashed dividing total CP per building per max weekly construction progress.

For example, a construction queue that has 10 buildings with a cost of 400 CP each will create a demand of 4000 CP. Using the max weekly construction progress to divide demand, in case of MWCP = 25, total demand will be 160.

• TOTAL CP DEMAND FUTURE CONSTRUCTION = 10 buildings x 400 CP/building = 4000 CP
• TOTAL CP DEMAND FUTURE CONSTRUCTION / MAX WEEKLY CONSTRUCTION PROGRESS 25 = 10 buildings x 400 CP/building / 25 max construction progress = 160 CP

When Max weekly construction progress increases with technology, the construction queue can become larger before affecting CP demand as before.

 

[Aokynse]

This idea of turning construction points into a tradable good makes a lot of sense—adds a real market dynamic and fits how construction crews move around for jobs. It reminds me of when we had to coordinate different trades for a big project, like how https://emersonproservices.com/carrollton/ handles gutters, masonry, and roofing all in one spot. Getting everyone synced up and making sure materials and labor show up on time is a challenge, so having construction points fluctuate with supply and demand feels realistic and would add some cool strategy to the game.

 

[DeClausen]

I understand the problem with construction companies as a non government building. What is first the egg or the hen?

Without a construction building nobody can construct anything and it is fundamental to drive the game, hence the decision to make it player only.

It is also realistic that construction points are shared between states and not a local good because construction companies can work anywhere, moving their labour and machinery to the construction site.

To have construction buildings work as the other buildings we should have a supply and demand for construction points (the good produced by construction buildings)

With the new ownership change in 1.7, construction buildings could be privatized and become a regular building that the market could even import and export their output, construction points.

Once built by the government, the building can be sold to investors.

In the market tab, a new trade good, construction points with a base value of 30 will go up and down depending on supply and demand. The cost to construct a building will remain 200, 400 CP etc.. but construction points will be paid in money depending on the market price, base value +/- 75%. If there is a shortage of construction points, there will be a penalty on the output like the other goods.

Whenever the player wants to build something, it will work the same as now but instead of CP it will pay money to construct buildings. Same construction queue, everything the same but with private construction buildings and a new trade good, construction points.

At the start of the game, each state or each POP will provide a minimum CP to go by, the same as now we start with 10 CP without construction sectors.

The demand for CP will account the current in construction buildings and the future construction projects in the queue. This will allow the player to push the prices of construction points well above profitable value. However, the government will only pay the CP used every day/week so future buildings are not paid in advance. The same as all other buildings when they sell/buy their trade goods.

PS: and yes, construction points will be affected by MAPI

PS: because the machinery and mobilization required for the personnel to the construction site, the convoys for export/import construction points should be double those of engines or ships.

Interesting concept! Privatizing construction and turning construction points into a tradeable good adds a whole new layer of strategy. It definitely makes sense from a realism and economic simulation standpoint. Curious how it would affect balance and pacing in the early game.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Interesting concept! Privatizing construction and turning construction points into a tradeable good adds a whole new layer of strategy. It definitely makes sense from a realism and economic simulation standpoint. Curious how it would affect balance and pacing in the early game.

IMHO it would make more difficult to jump start the economy as the price of construction points will be variable and affected by the length of the private construction, other nations buying construction points in the World Market and your own government construction queue.

This will be a problem for the player that will need to look after the demand of construction not being too hot. If the player increases construction buildings to reduce construction price, it may find himself that other nations and the private queue starts buying that construction points, being unable to reduce its price.

In addition, currently the player is able to reduce the construction costs by decreasing the input goods prices. In my suggestion, this will only reduce the costs of the constructions buildings but not affect the price of construction as this will be set by supply/demand.

Nevertheless, I would love to see a system like this in the game in the future. I am sure devs have already made a prototype and discarded it for some reason. Maybe now with the World Market it would work differently.