conventional wisdom on MP gamebalance

[Mr. Domino]

My friends and I have infrequently started several lan games across the years, but never finished. The matchups are always US, Germany, and USSR, with myself playing the US, though its possible we could get someone to play Japan.

However, it looks like we will not play anymore MP games since it is felt the game is unbalanced. In particular, the German player feels that for him to defeat even the USSR player's hundreds of divisions alone would be incredibly difficult, let alone do it while having to worry about D-Day or an American nuclear bomb. He understandably feels that starting a 30-40 hr game merely to inevitably lose is not worth it. For a while it seemed like a compromise might be reached by playing with modded version, but he had changed so many small details (and I am so irrationally anti-mod) that I balked. The last time we had this argument 1.3 was probably out, has anything important changed with DD or later patches?

What is the consensus or even just individual opinion of those who have actually finished MP games? Is the deck stacked against the Germany player in terms of Allied/Comintern IC and manpower to the point they rarely win? If they do win, does it require special conditions (such as 36 or 38 GC, houserules, or a few easy mods?) Or is the matchup itself inherently unequal, and I should switch from US to UK or get a human Italy?

 

[unmerged(58502)]

germany can take russia, u just gotta hit em hard and fast. helps if japan comes from the east also hehe. a russian player in 1940 is often ill prepared for the assault, as a lot of em are still spammin factories

 

[System Lord]

It would really help your setup if you could get a Japan player, having a human Japan will force the USA to build a large navy. That will require roughly half or more of the US IC making any D-Day invasion happen later in the game and be smaller in size. The only check you need with Japan is to have a rule forcing USSR and Japan to nap until late war as it is my experience that Japan can be wiped out by the USSR in a few short months as Japan can't have a large army (100 or so divs max on their TC). In short with a Japan USA needs a navy and that navy costs an awful lot.

 

[Cohen]

Axis would need some more IC.
More or less 30 for Germany, 16 to Italy and 15 for Japs.
A bit extra in Austria and Finland, at least that they get a 2nd tech team.

Another addends should be improving in Germany:

Blitzkrieg Land Doctrine (the '41, and '43 techs)
Better Leaders of Land and Air.
Improving some tech teams (like giving Electronics to Porshe and Krupp, and some other tweakings)

 

[unmerged(28254)]

Not really.

Here is a good way way for Germany to "win". By winning I mean roughly a 50/50 chance, with things being on the edge for a while. Remember winning is relative, as long as a good time is had by all. Don't worry too much about winning, as long as you have 30-40 hours of entertainment.

1936-Ally with Japan right off the bat. This assumes a human Japanese player. The Japanese trade technology and all of their level 1 "overage" destroyers and cruisers to the German. Can you say instant German navy? Throw in 2 Japanese transports as well, so the German does not have to build them.

1936 continued - As soon as Spanish Civil war starts, Germany declares war on Republican Spain. Keep spending money on influencing the Nationalists. Send your tank commanders and your Air commander to bomb and fight in the Spanish Civil war. This usually (not always) will not cause the French/British to declare war on you. Spanish Civil war is over fast, and valuable experience is gained by your commanders. The Japanese Air Force also contributes

1937 (or late 1936) - Japan, after accepting the Coup, starts the China war. I won't bore you with the details, except that after the Spanish civil war, Manstein usually rocks the Chinese. Ship 15 land (12 inf with 3 armor) to China. Do not ship the divisions from the Diplomacy screen, as they will arrive with only 1 str point and they take forever to build up (unlike ships). Do division lending, and have the Jap player pick them up. The German player runs them in China. (This is good operational experience as well).

This strategy is under EXTREME time pressure. The Spanish War has to be finished fast, and the China war has to be finished by early 1938.

With the largess from China, Japan then goes on to build a credible threat to the Soviet Union, while with the leadership experiences gained, the German Army is significantly better. Naval-wise the German navy is strengthened by Japanese technology and older ships.

After this, you slice through France, land your troops in England, German paratroops steal the crown jewels, while Japanese overage destroyers and the rest of the German fleet buy you time to waltz into London and smash the Brits.

While you're doing that the Japs took India, leveled Sydney and prepare to freeze their butts in Siberia, using borrowed Austrian mountain unit techniques and technology.

The world is then your oyster, with 2 great powers fallen.

But, tell your German friend he needs a competent ally. The wop don't count.

 

[unmerged(55727)]

And be sure to give Slovakia to Hungary; the extra IC helps them spam infantry you can use for support.

Being afraid of the Bomb should just inspire you to not mass stack troops, not to build all the IC in one place, or develop your own nukes
Germany has an advantage when it comes to ICBM and nuclear tech; use them! With some luck, you can have nuked New York and Washington in 1944 if you rush the tech.

 

[Cohen]

He asked for "multiplayer" wisdom.
Not single player gamey tactics.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

If USA doesnt enter the war till say mid40-41 and the Britain is AI controlled i fail to see what your friends problem is.

If he is that incompetent to be able to take on USSR and USA at the same time he shouldn't be playing Germany....Ever. With an AI UK, Germany should have no reason for fearing an Early DD-Day by America and by this time 3/4 of Russia should have fallen.

Infact he should have no trouble landing 30-40 troops in UK for the Final blow to the Allies.... NO Britan = No DDAY

Tell him to stop being a girlyman

 

[unmerged(18427)]

I think the main problem here is that you are two humans against one and that the one who is alone does not have a significantly stronger nation. The side with the most players WILL have a significant advantage, and such for a 3-player game to be balanced you need to play with some sort of handicap.
Maybye you could play two smaller nations against a stronger one. E.g. UK and France vs. Germany.

I've never tried that one, though.

 

[Galverizer]

Put limit on the earliest time for usa to enter war, it will solve most of the thing, and always, always attack SU in summer 1940 not later. His GDE is low then and if you play by the right rules it should be a year until usa would even enter the war.

Most players seems to put up troops all over germnay and france when they atatck SU instead of having everything to attack SU with. Just place out the newly built units in Germnay/France for protection instead.