Cooks and Kitchens not working as intended - save files

[Fifnaril]

Hello!
We are investigating the bug reports we are seeing about Cooks and Kitchens not working as intended. If you experienced this bug in one of your prisons, we would appreciate it if you could upload the save file here.

 

[jjwalker]

Recheck that.
Low variety = 1 ingredient.
Medium = 2 ingredients.
High variety = 3 ingredients.

I never in my explanation nor math deviated from Medium Quantity. It was the variety that changed. One pot cooks 10 meals on low or medium variety. Don't look at the serving table because they are combined there. Also, as I said before, unless you are on High quantity, the cookers don't change, only the amount of refrigerators. On low or medium quantity, you'll have more food on the serving table than trays, as it only hold 40 trays ( I saw a bug once where a worker put a small stack on top of the regular, so if your lucky 48).

 

[Kazahara Khan]

I never in my explanation nor math deviated from Medium Quantity. It was the variety that changed

The variety has no effect of the needed amount of ingredients, and therefore the variety also has no effect of how many fridges are needed.

For "medium quantity/high variety" the cooks cook exactly the same, as for "medium quantity/medium variety" or "... /low variety" or "... /no variety"
There is no difference in what the cooks cook.

The difference is only between how many different portions the Prisoners can choose.

Don't look at the serving table because they are combined there

Cause of that i count the food of ALL serving tables in the canteen together.

Only the "quantity" has an effect of how many cookers are needed. The variety has nof effect of the ammount of cookers, and therefore also no effect on the ammount of fridges.

It doesnt matter which variety you have choosen, the ratio is still 2 cooker : 1 fridge.

... as it only hold 40 trays

I nearly allways have 50+ trays on serving table. In this moment im writing here, one of mine serving tables hold 101 trays. On averrage i have 60+ trays on a serving table.

 

[jjwalker]

The variety has no effect of the needed amount of ingredients, and therefore the variety also has no effect of how many fridges are needed.

For "medium quantity/high variety" the cooks cook exactly the same, as for "medium quantity/medium variety" or "... /low variety" or "... /no variety"
There is no difference in what the cooks cook.

The difference is only between how many different portions the Prisoners can choose.


Cause of that i count the food of ALL serving tables in the canteen together.

Only the "quantity" has an effect of how many cookers are needed. The variety has nof effect of the ammount of cookers, and therefore also no effect on the ammount of fridges.

It doesnt matter which variety you have choosen, the ratio is still 2 cooker : 1 fridge.


I nearly allways have 50+ trays on serving table. In this moment im writing here, one of mine serving tables hold 101 trays. On averrage i have 60+ trays on a serving table.

1) ok... I guess the eggs that suddenly show up when you change to high variety don't need to be placed anywhere. Are yours sitting on the floor?

2) Wait until your chow hall is full, and you run out of trays.

3) That is a bug. The game is riddled with bugs but I don't know if I'd suddenly start to rely on that as a functional constant.

I am not going to argue with you, as you obviously know more than I do and your math is clearly infallible.

 

[Kazahara Khan]

1) No, all ingredients fit in existing fridges. I just have to wait one mealtime till there is place for the new ones.

2) No, i never run out of trays

3) Dont think so. But even with 30 trays in every serving table my canteen would work without problems

I dont want be rude, but sorry, my experience match your informations not at all.

And sometimes i dont understand your math:

- You need an absolute minimum of 1.05 cooks per cooker, no that isn't a typo ( So you need 15 cooks for 10 cookers ).

No. 1,05 cooks per cooker means, u need 10,5 cooks for 10 cookers (not 15). You have specifically mentiones, its NOT a type ... but MUST be one.
But whatever you mean (1,05 or 1,5) ... both is wrong.
By the way: its not accurate to give a "cook to cooker" ratio. that makes only sense for the MINIMUM count of cookers. If you have more cookers as needed, u dont need more cooks to controll the cookers.
Better is "x cooks for y meals"

And next:

- You need an absolute minimum of 1.1 cooks per cooker (so 20 cooks per cooker).

???
I think, u mean again "per 10 cookers", but 1.1 cooks per cooker doesnt come out at 20 cooks per 10 cookers

But the main mistake in my opinion is

Medium Quantity, High variety <- I use this personally.

- A cooker still cooks 20 meals.

A cooker dont cook "20 meals", it cooks "20 portions" (can be the equivalent of 20 meals (at low quantity), or 10 meals (at medium quantity), or 6,66 meals (at high quantity))

With THIS information you can calculate the amount of needed cookers in subject to the quantity. And only the quantity has an effect of needed cookers and fridges. The variety has NO effect.
if u have choosen a quantity, the needed amount of cookers and fridges ist the same for all varieties.

Example:
100 prisoners to feed.
if I choose low quantity I need (minimum) 5 cookers and 2,5 (=3) fridges for a working kitchen. No matter of the variety! The 3 fridges are able to contain all needed ingredients.
if I choose medium quantity, I need (minimum) 10 cookers and 5 fridges ... again: No matter of the variety!
if I choose high quantity, I need (minimum) 15 cookers and 7,5 (=8) fridges ... and again: No matter of the variety!
Of course, more fridges are better (for buffer). Im speaking abount monimum, but working, amounts.

The ammount of cooks I cant calculate so easy.
It depends of : how many prisoners can help in the kitchen. How are the working times for the prisoners, how far away is the delivery room, how far away is the canteen, how efficient is the canteen design ...
But my personal Experience with my actual prison:
8 cooks + 13 prisoners are able to manage:
- taking the ingedients from delivery to kitchen
- cooking 100 meals (=200 portions) in medium quantity and high variety. And in most cases the serving tables are filled 1H before mealtime beginns! Then they have 1H to clean the bigger part of the canteen.
and this 6x per day, every 3 hours
and in addition:
- they clean the canteen up to the last tray till the beginning of the next day
- they clean by the way the staffrooms!
AND sometimes they stand around in the kitchen when all the work is done!
AND 8 cooks + 13 prisoner are the assigned worker ... but mostly not all working places are occupied.

But this match quite exactly your 20 cooks per 10 cooker (for 100 prisoners at medium/high)
In this case Im with your opinion: 20 cooks (or a combo of cooks and prisoners) seems to be a good amount of workers for 100 meals (wihich need minimum 10 cookers and 5 fridges )

Good Night.

 

[jjwalker]

I'll give you that, 1.1 * 10 =/= is not 20 ( I work with Floating point numbers all day) so yes, my math isn't infallible either.

As far as the last paragraph, We do agree. You only need 1 cook per cooker, the extra was added for other duties related to the kitchen, I just never explicitly referenced that.

I still am holding firm on the rest though

 

[Kazahara Khan]

Ok, i will try the following:
I will reduce a kitchen to 10 working cookers (the minimum i need for 100 prisoner) and 8 fridges and give out "medium quality/high variety" meals.
I have 6 mealtimes per day for this kitchen and 80-100+ prisoner per mealtime.
When you are right, my system cant work, because i would need minimum 30 fridges, what is a smaaaaal difference to my calculatet 5 fridges.
I just want 3 more fridges for buffer please. The different to 30 fridges seems still significant.
according to your statement my kitchen MUST crash nearly intantly by running out of ingrediants.
My bet is: I dont will have any prolems.

Addition for the needed amount of cooks:
There is another factor I (we) totaly have ignored:
The mapsize of the prison!

On a small map the clock needs (on my computer) exactly 60 realtime seconds to rotate.
On a medium map 80 sekonds.
On a big map 120 seconds.
But ALL what IN the game happens, has the same "realtime" (moving, cooking, building, need-raising ...)

The "interactive-idea" was to compensate the longer distances on the map, cause of the slower "clock" a prisoner can double his walked distance per "ingame-time" (he makes the double of all per clock-rotation)
But they totaly ignored to adept all other game mechanics to this new clock speed!
This system is one of the most confusing bugs (in my opinion) in the game, cause it effects the whole gameplay!
And nearly nobody think of it and can get strange problems.

Example: On a big map its a BIG mistake to give your prisoners more then 4-5 hours of sleep. otherwise their hygiene-need EXPLODE in the night and you have a lot of fights EVERY morning.
You can fix it by giving them only 4H sleep and ALL is fine! Ther sleep-need is satisfied (cause they have had 8H sleep in effect) and the hygiene-need is still low.

So on a big map they also have the double time to cook, to clean up, to make beds in workshop ... so its much easier to handle their needs.
AND it have the effect, that you need only the HALF of cooks, cause they have the double "realtime" at normal "ingame working speed"

If you want a real challenge, you start with a small map and expand it on the size of a big map and build there your big prison! The clock dont become "adepted" to a big map.
Effect: Because of the long ways you can get a lot of time-problems.

So, if we both play different map sizes ( my last 20 prisons all were big ones, so i dont thought on this point till now), we play effectivly different games, cause the behaving of the game is very different at different map sizes.

The better solution for the "long-way-problem" in biger prisons, would be to raise only the moving speed of the prisoners and staff, cause this effect ONLY the moving-times and touch nothing else. Then there are in all other points the same conditions compared to all map sizes.

So you have to think of:
A big map mit 1 expansion to all sites has the same size as a small map with 6 expansions vertical, 4 expansions to west ans 2 expansions to east.
Both is exact the same 400x320 map.
But its a TOTALLY different game behaviour between this both maps!

Greetings

Sorry for hijacking this thread

 

[Kazahara Khan]

oooookay ... in my experiment i found another problem which is perhaps relevant for a lot of ppl who have a problem with "not working cooks"

first: my kitchen still dont crash with 10 cookers and 8 fridges for 100 prisoner at medium/high. S0, thats no problem.

But now the problem:
Like i said: i have 6 mealtimes a day, every 3H

First mealtime (max secure) is at 4 o´clock. the cooks start cooking at 0 o´clock, like expected.
Second mealtime (medium secure) is at 7 o´clock, and here starts the problem: the cooks WOULD start to cook for them at 3 o´clock, but the cookers are still occupied at this time for the 4 o´clock meal.
In my normal configuration I run 16 cookers, so there I have a lot of free cookers for the 7 o'clock meal and I never mentioned this problem.
But if I rum the "minimum configuration" with 10 cookers, this overlapping becomes a problem. The cooks DONT WAIT for a free cooker, they DROP the work for that mealtime.
The cooks wait till 6 o´clock to cook new food.
why 6 o´clock?
Because:
My next mealtime is at 10 o´clock (for low secure). So the cooks would start at 6 o`clock for this group.
The cooking for the 7 o´clock group was totally canceled because of the overlapping.
And so on and so on for the mealtimes at 1 o´clock pm, 4 o´clock pm and 7 o´clock pm.
With this system the cooks cook only for every second mealtime. (if no cookers free 4h before mealtime)

I would have to change my regime totally to solve this problem.
This problem seems to arise, if you have less then 4h between mealtimes AND not enough cooker to compensate.
When I would have 4h between the mealtimes, it should be no problem. but then i cant pack 6 mealtimes in the day. But thats an other problem.

Anyway, in the core the result of my experiment is:
Basically 10 cookers and a loooot less then 30 fridges (arithmetical 5, but in my practical case 8) are easy enough at medium/high for 100 prisoner. I dont got a lack of ingrediants and cook enough meals.

Greetings

 

[jjwalker]

The units I build are typically between 1000-1500 prisoners. Prison size doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.

And yes, you need, there is a minimum time required between meals because the cooks "cook" portion of the script starts at exactly 3hrs before meal time.

On other oddity about the situation I have noticed is that if you look at the canteens food need under logistics, the meal times are split even if you have a 2hr consecutive block. Example, I have a 2hr block at 17:00-19:00 the "meals required" shows 17:00-18:00 and 18:00-19:00. even though it is a contiguous block of time.

 

[Kazahara Khan]

Prison size doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.

I was talking about the starting map size, not prison size. Only the starting map size has an effect of the clock speed.
Start with a small prison and expand it to 400x320 and build your 1000+ prison.
And then start with a extended big map (is also 400x320), build the same prison and u will see: you cant work with the same regime cause of the different clock behaviour.

the script starts at exactly 3hrs before meal time.

4h in my prison. cooks start to cook at 0:00 for 4:00 mealtime (medium quantity/high variety)

On other oddity about the situation I have noticed is that if you look at the canteens food need under logistics, the meal times are split even if you have a 2hr consecutive block. Example, I have a 2hr block at 17:00-19:00 the "meals required" shows 17:00-18:00 and 18:00-19:00. even though it is a contiguous block of time.

Hmm, ja, I remember. I have forgotten that, cause in my prison all priseners manage to eat in 1H. I have 1H freetime after the mealtime. Perhaps i can try 2H mealtimes to animate the cooks to start cooking again, if the first try doesnt work cause of occupied cookers.

greetings

 

[jjwalker]

I was talking about the starting map size, not prison size. Only the starting map size has an effect of the clock speed.
Start with a small prison and expand it to 400x320 and build your 1000+ prison.
And then start with a extended big map (is also 400x320), build the same prison and u will see: you cant work with the same regime cause of the different clock behaviour.


4h in my prison. cooks start to cook at 0:00 for 4:00 mealtime (medium quantity/high variety)


Hmm, ja, I remember. I have forgotten that, cause in my prison all priseners manage to eat in 1H. I have 1H freetime after the mealtime. Perhaps i can try 2H mealtimes to animate the cooks to start cooking again, if the first try doesnt work cause of occupied cookers.

greetings

The clock stays proportional to movement so even in a large map, they are still in sync and proportional, time just moves slower. I have an almost bullet proof regime schedule that emulates actual prison as much as possible. I'll post it later. I will say that my meal times are 2hr blocks and 1hr free time afterward so that any stragglers can finish eating. I minimize this by making sure prisoners are relatively nearby immediately before chow and my prison population is entirely segregated, and then further sub-segregated thus solving the issues most people have logistically with very large prisons.

 

[Jlad Blind]

I was talking about the starting map size, not prison size. Only the starting map size has an effect of the clock speed.
Start with a small prison and expand it to 400x320 and build your 1000+ prison.
And then start with a extended big map (is also 400x320), build the same prison and u will see: you cant work with the same regime cause of the different clock behaviour.

Small Map has TimeWarpFactor = 1.0.
Medium Map has TimeWarpFactor = 0.75.
Large Map has TimeWarpFactor = 0.5.
You can freely edit it in save file to sync the clock.

If you know how to build Holding Cell (no Privacy problem), you can reach 1000~3000 Capacity in Large Map (200×160) without buy land. But it is a unrealistic prison.

 

[ADDISONZP]

i have the same problem like everyone: no cooking or deliveries or janitors cleaning the prison,please help :c

extra question:why nobody enters to my gym,even in yard time,they didn´t go there

 

[icedoutpatek]

Hello!

I have a problem with my main kitchen (the big one on the left). The cooking works well but when they put the food to the canteen and on the serving table, it instantly disappears and the prisoners get no food. The game is unplayable with this bug because everyone is starving (up to 70 prisoners a day) and there are riots everywhere and everytime. Here you can find a video I recorded which shows the issue:

I've attached my prison file to this post.

 

[Lynkz]

Same problem with my prison: Cooks refuse to cook. You have to manually delete all the leftovers after or search the kitchen every day to move the cooking meals and ingredients around to "reset" them. Laundry's also messed up. I remember janitors were also messed up but IDK if they were fixed since I stopped playing.

 

[UltimateTobi]

So I've seen you announced a new DLC.
Will you tackle existing issues in an accompanying update to the DLC?

 

[Fifnaril]

Same problem with my prison: Cooks refuse to cook. You have to manually delete all the leftovers after or search the kitchen every day to move the cooking meals and ingredients around to "reset" them. Laundry's also messed up. I remember janitors were also messed up but IDK if they were fixed since I stopped playing.

Hello! Thank you for the save file!

 

[28rommel]

So I've seen you announced a new DLC.
Will you tackle existing issues in an accompanying update to the DLC?

Can we please get some kind of communication from the game team regarding the issues presented in this thread (mainly re the kitchen/cooks).
It is frustrating to see that the team can take the time to make sure there are announcements on the new upcoming DLC and how much it will cost, but yet we get no word on the concerns presented by loyal players for this game.

 

[Woopzilla]

No DLC, No Mods, Standard Prison Architect (ver: the_rock_1.05 pc steam (Aug 21 2020) r3904 B:56).

I have the same problem. Cooks will eventually stop preparing any meals if there are leftover meals stuck on the cookers from the previous lunch. But it can also happen without there being leftover meals on the stove.

The bug usually fixes itself if you:

a) reload the save
or
b) dump or move all the food still on the cookers
or
c) dump ALL the food inside the kitchen: on floors, on fridges, on cookers

The first save will unbug itself (because you loaded the save file), but you can see three leftover food items on the stove being removed and then the cooks scramble to fulfill the meal requirements (but it's already the 2nd hour of the lunch time regime). You can see in logistics that there is a huge deficit in meals vs supply. If you speed x4, you should eventually run into the bug again.

In the second save, you can see a rarer version of this bug where it's completely broken. There is no leftover food and even reloading doesn't help. I think it had something to do with me maybe doing a shakedown a few hours before they would start preparing meals (shakedown started after 4pm). The cooks are on permanent strike. Rezoning the kitchen and canteen or reloading the save can't fix the situation.

EDIT: Seems like dumping ALL food inside the kitchen can fix the second save scenario. This includes food on the ground or on fridges, not just the cookers. Perhaps the issue is also that all fridges have the same looking ingredient (boxes full of cabbages), is that maybe causing an issue when running high variety + high quantity?