CORE MP vs vanilla HOI MP

[boromir]

I was thinking of playing some CORE MP. I've played many vanilla HOI MP games before, but never CORE. How does CORE compare to HOI in terms of MP game balance? How does Germany compare to Russia? Are they more evenly matched 1 on 1? Would a UK and Russia vs Germany make sense?

I've looked through some events, and it seems for example, that the RM pact is basically the same - ie. it makes no sense for Germany to sign it in MP. That is a bit disappointing as it is an event that really needs fixing.

Is the US WE behaviour changed in any way? From my vanilla HOI experience, it usually goes up a bit too fast ...

 

[boromir]

no opinions from veteran CORE players?

 

[unmerged(5892)]

Well,
My group who play quite often recently made the shift to CORE, and I for one, haven't looked back.

The benefits are a more historical feel, a better tech tree, and far better detail with units. Depending obviously on the house rules you play with, I find that Germany is no longer as powerful, and the game is the better for it.

The problems on the other hand, should also be listed. Firstly, Germany is weakened so much, that in most of our games, it has had a very, very hard time in Russia. And this is between players of equal skill. It's manpower is reduced, and could probably do with some injections from events, later on the road.

The other thing I have noticed is the Spanish Civil war, and the effects this can have on early war. On occasions, an independant Basque or Catalonian state will trigger an auto-DOW by the allies, upsetting almost any plans. This is however, mitigated by the fact that only AI nations do this.

Overall, I'd say go with CORE. It still needs to be tweaked a little, but is a far better product than the general Axis steamroll that is Vanilla HOI.

 

[boromir]

Well,
My group who play quite often recently made the shift to CORE, and I for one, haven't looked back.

The other thing I have noticed is the Spanish Civil war, and the effects this can have on early war. On occasions, an independant Basque or Catalonian state will trigger an auto-DOW by the allies, upsetting almost any plans. This is however, mitigated by the fact that only AI nations do this.

Overall, I'd say go with CORE. It still needs to be tweaked a little, but is a far better product than the general Axis steamroll that is Vanilla HOI.

Thanks. I just loaded up CORE and experienced the auto-dow by the Allies on Nationalist Spain after Catalonia popped up. I guess its best to edit Catalonia and Basque out.

 

[unmerged(14249)]

I played a two-player CORE yesterday - Germany vs Soviet Union. Neither of us were familiar with CORE so there was some novelty in experiencing it for the first time - like the uncertainty of real history.

There's a difficulty event at the start and we chose the middle, hard setting. This only seemed to affect Germany, firing every so often to take away resources and causing constant shortages. There's didn't seem to be any effect upon the Soviet Union so I recommend that you always choose the standard setting for this.

Prior knowledge of CORE would have helped a lot. For example, there are several events which give Germany industrial techs. I had researched all of these and so wasted the IC. Similarly there are some counter-balancing events which raise dissent and then lower it. Knowing what to expect would help you manage dissent more efficiently.

The changes to the tech tree seemed to change some unit stats quite a bit. For example, an infantry division with an artillery brigade had a much larger soft attack value than I'm used to see (about 28) because I'd researched many new artillery techs.

The underlying skeleton of the game didn't seem to change. In this game, the Soviet Union attacked Turkey in 1936. This caused the Allies to go to war with them. They made the usual ineffectual amhibious landings here and there (e.g. NZ in Vladivostok). The SU tried sneaking through Afghanistan into India but they were waiting for him. The result was a stalemate and continuing state of war.

THe Soviet Union went on to attack Bulgaria and Rumania. I'd been trying to get Rumania into the Axis to forestall this but they wouldn't accept not even when they were under attack from the SU. This seems odd because they had gone right and so were Paternal Autocrat.

I'd asked for military access through Poland to send an expeditionary force to Rumania and got it. But my expeditionary force disappeared when Rumania was annexed. The SU then also asked for military access and stationed much of their army on the Polish frontier with Germany. I then tried to get Poland to join the axis but they kept refusing, even though they were Paternal Autocrat too and axis-aligned, due to repeat influence.

SU adventurism had increased UK/French WE somewhat so I took an unprovocative line as Germany, declining to occupy the Rhineland or take the Anschluss. This kept the French WE below 100 into 1939. Then the Allies guaranteed Poland and Poland became a member of their alliance. This put them at war with the SU and so fighting started immediately with the forces stationed on their soil. I'd mobilised all my builds in the expectation of general war soon and so decided to declare war on the SU so that I could help the Poles. This worked out nicely as the German army was able to attack and crush the Soviets against the Polish controlled provinces to their east. This was the result I'd been hoping to achieve by inviting Poland into the Axis but this was almost as good.

The French WE is now 100 but they still haven't declared war on Germany. Maybe they need a casus belli or maybe the fact that we're at war against a common enemy is stopping them. Anyway, I'm still keeping a strong screen of infantry in the west to guard against an attack there and seen to have enough in the east without this force.

We've halted the game at this point and will probably continue it as the situation is quite interesting. So far as I can tell, the same strategic result would have happened in the regular game so it's probably not an effect of CORE. But it's hard to be sure.

Andrew

 

[unmerged(14284)]

Yes, concur with all the above as Andrew's opponent. CORE is fun to try without prior knowledge because of all the exotic events (especially those which flit by in the reports - e.g. the Lotta scheme expanding in Finland or labour problems in Mexico. But as Andrew says, anyone who knows what is coming will have an edge. Personally I'd like to see all hard-coded events like this have a % chance of not happening (both in CORE and the regular game), so that you don't get gamey 'ah, it's 1938, I'm about to get some free techs' sort of prescience.
The absence of separate War Entry levels for Axis and Soviet aggression remains a real problem is the USSR is played with non-historical aggression, as it means that Soviet aggression makes it more likely that the Allies wlil attack Germany! But the fact that a Soviet attack on Turkey makes the Allies attack them does help.

Nick