Wait. Are you saying that Lyndon Johnson is the one who had jfk assassinated??
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Wait. Are you saying that Lyndon Johnson is the one who had jfk assassinated??
It's been seriously proposed. Johnson was certainly capable of ruthlessness, and was the individual to gain the greatest obvious benefit from Kennedy's death. The fact that analysis has shown all the documented features of the assassination to be explainable by the single-gunman hypothesis, and the fact that, in more than half a century since the assassination, no one has come forward with credible evidence of anyone else's involvement, would seem to argue against a conspiracy, but, if there was one, LBJ's involvement would be worth examining.
EDIT: One conspiracy theory that is conspicuous for not being much put forward is Soviet involvement, despite them seeming like the obvious guys people would start blaming when the leader of the rival superpower is shot (and they certainly stood more to gain from Kennedy's death than from giving Americans fluoridated drinking water or other nefarious projects of which they were loudly accused).
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Proving that no one but Oswald was shooting at JFK would amount to proving a negative, but it turns out that the filmed footage of the assassination, the sustained injuries, and the recovered bullets, are consistent with someone shooting from where Oswald is believed to have been. Reports of a "magic bullet" with an inexplicable trajectory are based on misunderstandings of how people were seated in the car.
Wikipedia examines the "standard model" of the assassination here, and in the process discusses common criticisms and rebuttals thereto.
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Ehh, i'm not sure the USSR would actually want an assassination of their enemy's leader. First, there's "the devil you know" mantra which the KGB has lots of files on. Secondly, this opens up for the CIA to do similar stunts, and I think the soviet leadership had way too much self-preservation to start that.
And thirdly, there's the possibility of starting ww3, due to the americans not wanting to look weak, and therefore wanting to retaliate, preferably with excesive force.
So in my mind the USSR would be the last, besides the americans of course, to really want an assassination of an american president.
And thirdly, there's the possibility of starting ww3, due to the americans not wanting to look weak, and therefore wanting to retaliate, preferably with excesive force.
So in my mind the USSR would be the last, besides the americans of course, to really want an assassination of an american president.
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I agree they wouldn't have done it, I'm merely surprised there weren't more people accusing them, given the tendency of certain portions of America to turn everything into a Bolshevik Conspiracy, and not to let little details like "lack of motive" or "conclusive evidence to the contrary" get in the way of blaming Moscow.
The USSR is a red herring based on a documented trip by 'Lee Harvey Oswald' to Mexico City at the end of September / early October 1963, prior to the assassination, where he made a tremendous amount of noise at the Cuban and Russian embassies. Whether it was actually Oswald at the Russian Embassy disrupting the KGB's soccer match and demanding immediate transport to the USSR, or if this is part of the plot to frame and cover-up, is open to debate. But this is where the shadowy Commie assassin theory enters in with the Russian trained shooter returning to the US with Oswald. It does not exactly hold water.
Not to mention the Soviet Union takes great pride in helping get Kennedy elected over Nixon (Russia interfering in a domestic election!) and Bobby met frequently with a GRU colonel in Washington. They were for rapprochement.
But I'm sure there is a wikipedia page someplace that explains all this and will answer all questions beyond the shadow of a doubt. Only problem, at what educational facility in America is wikipedia permitted as a citable source? The problem is a bit more nuanced.
You have a wound entering the base of the throat blowing out the back of Kennedy's head fired by Oswald shooting from up and behind. You have Oswald killed by a Mob gunman at close range while in police protection. And all of this is easily explained by reorganizing the seat height in the presidential limo, which was repaired and restored to original condition almost immediately after the event? Sure, why not.
Not to mention the Soviet Union takes great pride in helping get Kennedy elected over Nixon (Russia interfering in a domestic election!) and Bobby met frequently with a GRU colonel in Washington. They were for rapprochement.
But I'm sure there is a wikipedia page someplace that explains all this and will answer all questions beyond the shadow of a doubt. Only problem, at what educational facility in America is wikipedia permitted as a citable source? The problem is a bit more nuanced.
You have a wound entering the base of the throat blowing out the back of Kennedy's head fired by Oswald shooting from up and behind. You have Oswald killed by a Mob gunman at close range while in police protection. And all of this is easily explained by reorganizing the seat height in the presidential limo, which was repaired and restored to original condition almost immediately after the event? Sure, why not.
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Lindon B Johnson did not murder JFK and it's laughable to think anyone thinks that. Also I'm not a Lindon B Johnson fan.
People not being able to keep their months shut is so true. The oblivious expatiation turns out mostly to be the true one. Have to bare in mind that everything former president Truman said about Hoover is shockingly true.
The USSR did not kill JRK as they had nothing to gain from this death. Not one thing. If found out they would only be in a world of pain. come on use some intelligence here after all the people running the USSR are not stupid.
I don't know who JRK is, but I'll let you wake up again tomorrow morning and read that paragraph again. I don't think it means what you think it means. Spoiler: I already said the Soviet Union had nothing to do with it.
Enjoy a good night's sleep and try again.
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Typing mistake, you know who I meant. If your not in the Russia had John killed camp then cool.
I didn't know for sure who you meant either. JFK had a brother RFK who got murdered too so who knows who you meant. You totally misread Andre's post.
I started this whole conversation on here so you do know who I meant as the tittle of the thread says it. I know he had a Brother called Robert. Robert was looking into brining the Mafia down for john at a time when Hoover said he did not believe the Mafia existed. Hoover knew the Mafia did really but going after them would take many years if not decades and Hoover only went after criminals that were quick and easy to get (like 1930's bank robbers) because that what got him on the front page of newspapers and going after criminals that took decades to bring to justice so would not. Hoover loved the limelight. Maybe John and Robert were going to make Hoover look stupid by doing his job for him and so Hoover thought he must get rid of John before that could happen. I don't know.
Yes and no. You are blending truth with half truth. This is a big salami, you have to eat it one bite at a time; if you try and put too much in your mouth at one time you will choke.
The problem is you want a 'yes' / 'no' answer with no gray area, and it simply does not exist. The only path is to follow the individual stories and see where they lead. And that takes time and patience.
J. Edgar Hoover, the paragon of American virtue and virility in the face of crime, was having a homosexual relationship with Clyde Tolliver that is documented on film and those photos are in the hands of the Mob. In Prohibition Era America, such a relationship is NOT kosher. Ergo, there is no National Crime Syndicate, and Hoover maintains this position regardless of any facts that come his way. And Hoover IS NOT HAPPY when Roosevelt starts cutting deals with Meyer Lansky to ensure Lucky Luciano in prison can maintain control the docks of New York Harbor following the sinking of the Normandie, and the full cooperation of the Mafia and OSS with Patton's forces in Sicily using Luciano's liaisons to provide skilled local scouts. 'General Mafia' was Patton's little nickname for the Sicilian scouts who moved American infantry forces through smugglers passes to flank defended positions and allowed him to not get bottled up on those mountain roads.
As you said, Hoover focuses on small, high profile, bank robbers with max media coverage. 'The Commission' did not exist. Until an event happened which forced him to change his public opinion forevermore.
After the war, Luciano is deported to Italy in February of '46 to get him out of America. Luciano is part of the cabal of Corporate America and Organized Crime that wants to milk Cuba dry. When Luciano comes to Cuba in '47 the Cubans try to ignore it, but then are forced to arrest and deport Lucky when he was spotted by a DEA agent. However, a lot of business got done before that point:
Vito Genovese grew tired of living in Luciano's shadow, he grew impatient and wanted to rise and began causing trouble. Luciano's consigliere was Frank Costello. Frank Costello is the man on whom Vito Corleone is based; he is the 'Prime Minister of the Mafia' and has all the judges and politicians in his pocket. Luciano's strongman is Albert Anastasia 'the lord high executioner', who was the Commision controller of Bugsy Siegel / Meyer Lansky's group of Jewish killers, 'Murder Inc'.
Luciano / Costello / Anastasia checkmate Genovese's power play and things remain as they were. Charlie 'Lucky' Luciano controls the Commission, Costello runs The Family in Charlie's name, Albert Anastasia is the powerful enforcer you cannot move. A small investment was made in Las Vegas under Benny Siegel (RIP), a large on was made in Cuba using huge chunks of Mob profits to build palatial casino hotels they would run under Batista. This massive investment would be lost when Fidel Castro overthrew Batista in 1958 and instills a great hatred in the Mob for The Beard.
Back home: Albert Anastasia is famously murdered in February of 1957 in the Park Sheraton Hotel barber shop on the orders of Vito Genovese by Joey 'Crazy Joe' Gallo.
In May of that same year, Frank Costello is shot in the face at point blank range by Vincent 'The Chin' Gigante on orders of Genovese. At one point, the police walk Gigante up to Costello and ask if this is the man who shot him. Costello's reply was 'I've never seen him before in my life'. Cops report Gigante then says, quietly, 'thanks Frank'.
The others cede the field. Vito Genovese has won his rebellion. He renames the 'Luciano Crime Family' the 'Genovese Crime Family'. Vito wants a big meeting of the Commission to coronate him as its leader and to let everyone know he was in charge now. A meeting is held at the home of Joseph Barbara in Apalachin, New York. Maybe a local State Police sergeant who didn't like Barbara noticed a massive collection of very expensive automobiles parked around Barbara's house. One version of the story says that someone made a phone call and it was all a set up; neither Luciano's Captains nor Meyer Lansky were there that day as they should have been. Regardless, state police POURED into Barbara's property and captured enough of The Commission to prove its existence beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Vito Genovese is later set up on a rigged drug bust by Costello and spends his remaining years behind bars. The Genovese Crime Family is still famous in New York City when many forgot Charlie Luciano ever existed, which is criminally unfair.
At this point, Hoover is forced to change his tack with some embarassment. Slightly. But the FBI will not grow teeth and attack the Mafia until after Hoover is dead and buried. After Hoover is gone, the Feds grow teeth and use the RICO act to dismember the INCREDIBLY powerful Cosa Nostra organizations that dominated New York City up until the 1990's.
This all happens before JFK is elected. Hoover's relationship with the mob is not the cornerstone of this problem.
If I were you, I'd look into the the relationship between J. Edgar Hoover, the Kennedy sex scandals, and the fact the FBI was feeding LBJ with enough blackmail material to force Kennedy to add Johnson to the ticket.
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I never said that was the reason why JFK was shot I just simply said it might have been a reason. I like so many other people have zero idea what really happened. I however find it hard to believe that the main suspect in the case was shot by Jack Ruby (a man who might of had links to organized crime) because he loved the president, bit to convenient don't you think? The older I get and the more my eyes open up to how the world is really run (by evil people like Rupert Murdoch ) the harder it to believe the official JFK assassination story Also it's never been proven that Hoover was having homosexual relationship with Clyde Tolliver or anyone else I do believe. The whole thing stinks and even the 1970's investigation looking into if their was a cover up or not thought that there was something fishy going on but could not prove anything as too much time had past. Something happened but it's far to late to ever know but I do get the feeling the bad guys won again.
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