"Critical" Features from CK2 DLC

[whyme943]

So, I (and many others) are hoping for many of the features introduced in CK2 DLC to be part of the Base Game in CK3. Some people have said everything, but I wouldn't go that far (do we really need India, Hordes, Aztec invasions, or the Chinese empire interaction from the beginning?). So, this thread is to talk about what features introduced in DLC we do need. Basically, what is so important to 'full DLC' CK2 that it's reasonable to ask for it in CK3 base game? Well, I made a bit of a list. Order is roughly from most to least important. Feel free to add to it, and see what you think:

1. GAME RULES. This Is an awesome feature that should be in every Paradox game. I love the Game rule system.
   
2. Retinues. One of the most-recommended 'Necessary DLCs' is Legacy of Rome, solely for this feature.
3. College of Cardinals, Antipopes, requesting things from the pope. These features are, imo, critical to immersion for Catholic rulers. It's hard to imagine crusader kings without religious politics
4. Holy Fury Crusades. The holy fury update made crusading much more worthwhile. I think the new crusade system should be similar, or have similar depth.
5. Factions/improved revolts. Another feature of Legacy of Rome, the faction system is a key part of internal politics. Please don't release the game with the 'each vassal rebels individually' system, that would be a major step back.
6. The silk road. This was a key part of historical trade and money-making. It should absolutely be a part of the base game.
7. Something with republics/trade. I've heard that merchant republics won't be playable at launch, but I think that some form of 'money making trade government' thing should be included.
8. Basically all of conclave. Your council is a major part of internal politics, and the new alliance system that emphasized marriage was great for flavour. IMO both should be in the new game.
9. Epidemics and (maybe) hospitals. The improved disease deadliness and court physician events are awesome for immersion. At the very least, make the black death as scary as the reaper's due made it!
10. Societies, Way of Life. 2 of my favourite parts of the 'DLCed-up' game. I love the roleplaying aspect of CK2, and these features give you lots to do even when you're not conquering people.
11. I think that you should be able to play, minimum, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Islam. All were big players in the crusades, so I think all should be featured at launch.
12. Bloodlines and sainthood. This was a popular mod before it was included in base game. I think it warrants a CK3 inclusion. Please make them easier to search for, too!
13. Coronations- Another cool feature for catholic rulers
14. Holy orders- An immersive feature that makes holy wars a bit more dangerous. Warrants inclusion.
15. Tributaries- An easy way to expand your realm (kinda) with some serious drawbacks. This is a good CB, and an important part of external politics.
16. Treasury/Artifact system. Simply because it's good for modders and allows for things like a family sword or set of armor. Cool immersive feature.
17. Legendary Buildings(?). Kind of an endgame feature, but the great works system was neat and allowed you to build your own Taj mahal or Harrenhal. Really fun for storytelling.
18. Custom Kingdoms/Empires. My Favourite Charlemagne feature, simply because it let you avoid the whole 'I'm a quadruple duke and more powerful than any neighbor but can't call myself a king because I straddle 2 de jure kingdoms' situation.

Just a small disclaimer, now: I'm not asking for any of these things to be exactly the same as CK2, and new systems might make some of these systems obsolete- so, paradox, use your judgement. However, what I am asking for is that CK3 have similar depth to the 'complete' CK2 in all of these areas. I welcome people's input on this list and look forward to the discussion.

 

[Duke of Awesome]

Let's sticky this and see how many actually make it in

 

[Rubidium]

Given that they are apparently including the Old Gods start date, I assume they will have all the religions unlocked from Day 1 (as it makes no sense to include that start date without playable pagans, as otherwise it's fairly terrible). They seem to be focusing on the RPG side of things, so I'd expect the Artifacts/Treasury to stay in as well, and probably things like Coronations, etc.

We know that foci are in in some form (from one of the screenshots), although very different (once you select a focus, you "level up" your e.g. carousing power over time at a predictable rate, rather than praying to the RNG that you get X trait)

Conclave mechanics really depend on how the council works, as do factions/revolts. Likewise, I'm hoping that the Catholic mechanics are seriously overhauled. The idea is fine, but in practice it tends to be mostly ignorable, and meanwhile the whole struggle between Church and Crown that defined much of the Middle Ages is essentially ignored, as is the Western Schism and its effects (right now Antipopes are basically just a tool for an Emperor to get some money, avoid excommunication, tank Catholic MA and maybe press a claim on Rome, rather than representing a real struggle between competing Papacies).

I'd rather they take their time to do Merchant Republics (and Nomads) right, rather than just throw in something just to have something. Likewise with Societies; the current version is neither balanced nor particularly interesting. I'd rather they start from the ground up for those (and only include them if they can include enough that e.g. half the pagans in the world are secretly Satanists). And retinues in their current incarnation (while better than they were when LoR launched) can die in a fire with the rest of the CK2 combat system. Meanwhile part of me still holds out hope for a better trading system.

I agree on some form of Great Works (Cathedral building, for instance, was a massive part of medieval Europe, which was essentially ignored before they were introduced), and of course, Game Rules.

 

[Vokasak]

This list kind of reads like "ck2 dlc that I like" more than "critical features". Like, in what way is India less important than hospitals?

 

[Limbojack]

I would agree to all of these, but I also hope that trade routes will be a thing in the entire world and not only during the slik road. Maybe they should differentiate between certain "tiers" of trade routes with the silk road being top tier, other routes in the wealthy parts of Europe and Africa being second tier and routes in Scandinavia and the north eastern Europe being third tier.

 

[vandevere]

The Game Rules are an absolute must. That will ensure that as many players as possible will have an enjoyable experience instead of pleasing one play style at the expense of others

 

[Zhetone]

retinues need to be changed how they are implemented because for players they become invincible doomstacks with amazing stats once you are even moderately big and are way too prevalent in the "meta" of the game for the time period

 

[Michael Bachari]

I'm willing to accept game rules, if Paradox just focuses and hopefully optimizes the default settings, then you differentiate from the default setting on your own risk. I just want at least one well-balancef setting.

 

[Husein]

If they don’t implement chivalric orders for Christian and dervishes for Muslims why bother with societies at all.

 

[EU3NOOB]

College of Cardinals, Antipopes, requesting things from the pope. These features are, imo, critical to immersion for Catholic rulers. It's hard to imagine crusader kings without religious politics

Yes, but Anti-Popes definitely need a rework. As they are now, they are toothless and one pops up every few years. Really boring as they are now.

 

[Arona]

Population and manpower system with addition to retinues. People should have option to use man power as regular levys or train them as retinues. Retimues should also have tiers like elite units with best gears. There should be no retinue limit only limit should be how much manpower realm has avaible and how many units realm can finance.

 

[vandevere]

Yes, but Anti-Popes definitely need a rework. As they are now, they are toothless and one pops up every few years. Really boring as they are now.

Speaking of Popes, CK3 is an excellent opportunity to bring Papal excommunications up to date.

If the Devs plan to bring Known Murderers, Kinslayers, Possessed, and Lunatic Rulers to CK3, then it can be hoped the devs will have the Papal AI prioritize those, instead of going after random mooks. Also, what with various degrees of sinners in the game-AI or otherwise -maybe the Popes will stop excommunicating Rulers at the behest of other Rulers.

IRL, Papal Excommunications were the medieval equivalent of nuclear warheads. They shouldn't happen all the time. But, when they do, they should be devastating.

 

[Zylathas]

I think your list is quite representative for what we will see in the game on release bar societies, I expect them to scrap those. ( I don't like em in the current iteration)

 

[Michael Bachari]

To my taste the levies recover too quickly or it is because I have defensive pacts on .

 

[Husein]

Population and manpower system with addition to retinues. People should have option to use man power as regular levys or train them as retinues. Retimues should also have tiers like elite units with best gears. There should be no retinue limit only limit should be how much manpower realm has avaible and how many units realm can finance.

professional armies in 9th century Europe?

 

[Arona]

professional armies in 9th century Europe?

professional armys in sparta, persia, byzantine. Idea about professional armys havent dies as time has moved on. "Army" is just a name for scale. is 20 professional bodyguards a army. Or is 100 professional honor guards a army? Its rulers decide how many frofessional soldiers he has and can afford.

 

[Husein]

professional armys in sparta, persia, byzantine. Idea about professional armys havent dies as time has moved on. "Army" is just a name for scale. is 20 professional bodyguards a army. Or is 100 professional honor guards a army? Its rulers decide how many frofessional soldiers he has and can afford.

Sparta didn’t have a professional army it relied on levies which were better trained than usual but levies all the same. They did not have an armed force constantly at arms. Most castles had garrisons of a few dozen people outside of wartime. The society is already too militarized as is.

 

[zz77]

I like all features of CK2, except Aztecs. So I want them all - ALL - to be kept in CK3. Maybe not literally kept, but made better way.

For instance, the absence of proper nomads in CK3 is a serious drawback for me. Almost to the level of personal tragedy. I know they are not perfect in CK2, but making 'em just an ordinary tribes... Seriously? Same sort of feelings for merchant republics.

And now I have a question to Paradox. What's the point for me, as a customer, to set aside the game with lots of cool features, which I paid for, and pay again for the same game but without many of these features? 3D portraits? No, thanks.

 

[the glory of plain]

sahara trade route have much better design then silk road
hope similar trade will cover the whole map

 

[EU3NOOB]

If the Devs plan to bring Known Murderers, Kinslayers, Possessed, and Lunatic Rulers to CK3, then it can be hoped the devs will have the Papal AI prioritize those,

Or maybe make THEM Popes instead!