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War, What is it Good For? Land Grabbing. (Remain a Byzantine vassal, but build up our military and invade the last weak, independent Sicilian sheik, the Sheik of Siracusa. Also works well under another king, but a strong lord might try to claim the prize for himself...)


Just keep refusing the mobilizations.
Don't click decline, but wait that the message vanishes with time, so your loyalty will never become too low. :p
Conquer Sicily and then North Africa if possible.

Roman Empire shall protect you, you don't need to protect it. :D
 
@kadvael56: By the time I would feel comfortable heading off to Siracusa (about another year away, maybe a month or two less), we'd have more than enough money for a hit on Guiscard. Might go broke again if we get noticed though...
 
Agree with Enewald. :)
 
Fun Fact -

Only 4 of you have voted so far. This is still enough that I can pretty much call the vote closed, although I won't do so just yet.

Why? There have been 12 people besides myself that have posted in this thread so far. Of those 12, 3 never came back after the first vote. Therefore, it can be said that we have 9 active participants, and that 4 people is usually enough to guarantee at least a tie, with 5 being the magic number of majority (assuming that nearly everyone else only votes for one option, if the vote is slightly more even, then 4 is enough).

So something to keep in mind for the future: unless this thread gets a lot more voters, even a small coalition block can pretty much determine the fate of the AAR.

(Real reason for posting: I was bored and so decided to start observing the politics of voting here. Eventually I might start tracking trends of certain influential voters.)
 
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Maybe it's my cautious nature, but I'll vote for

Peace in Our Time! (Remain a Byzantine vassal and continue to focus on the economy: Roger and all of his counts are 50 years old, whereas Sergios is 21, so we can just outlive him and his successor might be a bit less of a powerhouse.)

Wait a decade or two, Roger will die and the political landscape of Southern Italy and Sicily might look hugely different! Maybe in that time, if you're getting too bored or in need of a good war, you could hope Corfu or some random Eastern Greek county breaks away and declares independence.
 
Just popping in to show that I haven't forsaken you guys. I've just gotten through enough playtime for there to actually be a vote again, and the update will be coming up sometime within the next few days (it would be tomorrow, but i've got my final final then).
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Chapter 4, Part I - Economic Anarchy

September was important for three reasons: 1: Sergios decided that it would be too hazardous to declare himself an indpendent state and so chose to remain under the Byzantine yoke. 2: As a reward for remaining a loyal vassal in such dark times, the Emperor sent more agricultural experts to Napoli to help improve farming efficiency in the capital by introducing a more effective type of plough there. 3: Most importantly of all, it was revealed to Sergios that the Doge of Venice had declared war on the Sheikdom of Siracusa, hoping to expand his influence across the Mediterranean. Wanting to seize Sicily from weaker neighbours rather than the Republic, Sergios declares war on Siracusa and hurriedly ships his troops off to Trapani, where they will meet up with local forces and march on the Sheik's fortress. With his father absent, Konstantinos begins to become afraid of the dark, seeing monsters lurking in every shadow.

A few months later, the peasants also notice Sergios' absence from the capital and begin to disregard some of his less important laws. In an attempt to discourage Capuan revolutionaries from taking advantage of this fact as well, the local militia are given better equipment, including chained leather armour originally produced by Trapani armorsmiths. Meanwhile, the Count has sent the Siracusan army into a rout after a short skirmish, and begun a siege on the city itself.

After half a year, the court realizes why Sergios personal presence is necessary: Chancellor Zoe has started to break down under the stress of having to deal with all of the diplomatic problems of the kingdom herself. The baby boy born to Sophia is named Nikephoros, in the hopes that a swift victory will bring Sergios home. This prayer is answered two months later on April 27, 1072, when Siracusa is captured and the sheik is sent into exile. The armies march home.

Unfortunately, Sergios returns to find that the merchant guilds he established have become legitimate trading enterprises that now have enough support among the growing middle class to throw their weight around. The Count takes this lesson into consideration and decides that he will support noble enterprises more heavily to suppress the development of a full-out merchant population, supporting the nobles who built a successful salt refinery in Napoli in their desire to expand operations into Siracusa.

In July, the Principality of Thrace declares war on the Emperor: Forced to choose between his ally and his lord is no contest, Sergios picks the latter. Also, in a strange turn of events, the Pope invites Sergios to a hunting expedition that will be held in the land around the Papal States. Not wanting to pass up the opportunity to have the moral high ground over the holiest man in Western Christendom, Sergios politely refuses the invitation.

Remember the decision that the Count made a few months back concerning the support of noble businesses? It turned out to be a bad idea as in September, the same group of nobles establishes a salt refinery in Capua. Salt is cheaper than ever before, but now a monopoly on the vital product may exist even before capitalism gets started properly. Of course the peasantry does not worry about this, and with prosperity being at an all time high, small fairs begin to pop up around the countryside of the capital.

Peace and quiet is established once again... until the Emperor, concerned with traitors and revolts, demands that Sergios swear his loyalty publicly. Despite concern for Napoli, Sergios is unable to do so: Dukas is far too incompetent of a leader. The Count is chased out of the Byzantium, decryed as a rebel-in-waiting. Nevertheless, Sergios is pushed back into the fold by New Years' (as several of the independent princes started making threats along the lines of: "It's us or him!") and swears loyalty.

The independent Count of Urbino sends a messenger asking for an alliance. Sergios considers the offer for about two seconds before laughing at him and telling the messenger that he has better things to do than ally with a one province count halfway across Italy. Trying to reign things in on the horrible economic control mess, Sergios introduces the royal business contracts to Capua, without the accompanying royal guilds.

In April, work on a library begins in Siracusa in order to sort out the Greek texts written/accumulated by the people of the province from the Muslim texts. Each will be given their own place (albeit with the Muslim ones being checked over carefully). Further work continues in the "Military Production Center of Napoli", aka Trapani, as slinged javelins are introduced and incorporated into the structure of the local army division there. Hearing about these developments, the people of Siracusa try to compete in terms of being a hotspot of ideas by developing the area around major cities to allow for easier counterattacks in case of enemy siege.

Progress is interrupted by the Pope, who once again sends out a hunting invitation. Sergios once again refuses, and gets back to work, ordering construction on a library in Trapani to match the one in Siracusa. In November, the Pope dies in a hunting accident, and his subordinate bishop is elected to the Papacy. Peasants in the capital who hold onto Catholicism use this as an excuse to pray in public despite the Count's protests. The domination over Napoli's salt industry is completed the month afterwards...
 
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Bonus Update #1

Nobility of the 11th Century said:
Everyone knows that mice like cheese. Except they don't: It has been scientifically proven that mice prefer peanut butter, but the combination of pop culture and availability has convinced everyone of the idea that a mouse will greedily devour any morsel of cheese placed in front of it.

Switch around the terminology, and you can understand why trying to figure out the roles that specific nobility played in 11th century Napoli is a headache.

When Sergios swore allegiance to the Byzantine Empire, one of the things he did was switch around the titles of his local nobillity for Greek ones. Unfortunately, over 230 years of independence meant that none of the positions corresponded, so Sergios just ended up assigning titles that he heard at the Emperor's court to his knights and influential families. Of course, this caused even more confusion, as it meant that the nobles not only had meaningless titles, but meaningless titles that corresponded to the highest ranks in Byzantine government. Eventually the whole system was scrapped when Sergios...

On December 28, 1072, four of the most influential men in Napoli met in a mansion in the countryside of the capital province to discuss business. They are as follows:

Magistros Constantinios Chrysos
(A Greek nobleman from Napoli, and the unofficial leader amongst the noblemen who recieved the salt contract from Sergios.)

Magistros Leo Spartenos
(A member of the Count's extended family, also from Napoli.)

Anthypatos Abu Kharim Andraos ibn Jad al Siqilli
(Shortened to "Andraos al Siqilli" outside of the Arabic community, an Arab businessman from Trapani who converted immediately after the siege of Trapani and was made a nobleman to set an example to the other Arabs.)

Vestarches Giovanni Buonarotti
(One of the nobleman organizing a defense against the rebels in Capua, also the only non-Orthodox Christian in the whole group, as he refused to convert from Catholicism when the revolutions came.)
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"What do you mean we have to get out of the business?!" Giovanni shouted: "What could possibly be wrong with selling salt?"

With that, Leo cleared his throat and weakly responded: "The Count's been worrying that the economy's changing too fast, and that we're the final straw. In other words, he's afraid that our interests are becoming too similar to the burghers, who have been gaining power themselves. And he wishes for us to give the royal family greater influence on how decisions are made before... drastic measures have to be taken."

Giovanni shrugged: "You mean calling in the army? All of Capua's forces are in my pocket, and with a little bit of money, so are the rest of the military leaders except for those belonging to the royal guard. And Sergios isn't that awesome of a military leader..."

But at this point Andraos popped in: "I think Leo was referring to the clergymen. We have all seen that an enemy of God has no place among the people of Napoli, especially if he is also an enemy of the Count."

Across the table, Constantinios nodded his head: "Very wise Andraos, and maybe we should be willing to compromise a little bit on the issue. But I think the exact nature of the matter shall have to wait until tomorrow, as the hour is late."
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With that, each of the four men retired to their own rooms for the night, only to be awoken early the following morning by a blood-curdling scream. At one point during the night, an assassin had creeped into Andraos room and killed him, leaving a bloody mess that had just been discovered by a servant girl. A meeting was called immediately, at which point Constantinios spoke:

"Andraos was murdered last night. Now, I would be heavily inclined to believe that this was the threat that the Count spoke of... except for the fact that this would imply that the Count could hear our discussion from several miles off AND discounting the fact that the person slain was among those who supported handing him partial control of the salt refineries. Therefore it must have been one of the Anthypatos' enemies who arranged the dirty deed."

While there were a number of noblemen who had been upset by the promotion of the Arab to nobility, a large number of them had themselves been recently promoted and thus wouldn't have as much reason to complain. Contemplation over who would have the motivation steadily decreased in scope, until eventually both Leo and Constantinios began to stare at Giovanni. Horrified, the noble shouted:

"I know what it looks like, but would I have killed him?! The worst case scenario would be the loss of a small amount of money, not anything worth killing a man over..."

Leo interrupted: "But of the three of us, you were the only one opposed to the proposal. You were even willing to call down the army to keep things out of Sergios' hands!"

Shocked, Giovanni pointed at Leo and started speaking like a madman.

"How do we know it wasn't you, Leo? After all, you would stand to profit the most from the Spartenos' family taking control of the salt trade. You're on the Count's payroll!"

With those very words, Constantinios fell to the floor short of breath. Grasping at the air, it became obvious that he too was the victim of assassination, albeit one that was slow and unnoticeable until it was far too late for the Magistros. But neither Leo or Giovanni cared, they were at each others' throats with one thought in mind: "He wants me dead. I have to make sure that I am the one who is getting out of here, not him.
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Eventually Giovanni won out: having been the only one of the four nobles with any military experience, it was easy for him to get out of Leo's grip and strangle the Magistros. The Italian noble then began to run towards the exit of the mansion in the hopes that he could make it back to the safety of Capua...

"Count Sergios was definitely behind all of this," Giovanni thought "and I will not feel safe until I have 4 stone walls and 50 guards protecting me."

But when the Vestarches finally reached the entrance to the stables, he saw that his horse was nowhere to be found. In fact, all of the horses had somehow vanished. Knowing that his fate was now unavoidable, Giovanni screamed:

"How could this happen!"

And before he could say another word, a man in a dark grey hooded cloak stabbed Giovanni in the back.

"You messed with the Count. And when you do, he sends in the Tagliabues."
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It was announced on January 1st, 1074 that due to the mysterious deaths of the four nobles who owned the salt refineries, the industry would be transferred to royal control, to ensure that the profits from the industry would be used only for the benefit of Napoli.
 
Chapter 4, Part II - Uneasy Lies the Head that Wants a Crown

In an attempt to avoid the mess that resulted from giving a group of nobles unlimited control over one industry, Sergios gives one noble family the rights to manage a tile factory in Napoli, with plans to divide up ownership of others among competing families.

August marks the death of the King of Croatia. The new king, Stejpan, comes to Sergios wanting to renew the old alliance between Croatia and Napoli. Seeing the advantages in an ally who is both powerful and close enough to protect him, the Count agrees.

The following month, a group of Arabs come into Sergios' throne room and present him with a set of metal armor unlike anything seen in Italy. It turns out that they are a group of smiths who were tired of competition in Trapani and thus moved to the capital. Here they were able to work on an entirely new armor design of Scalemail, which they are offering to the Count himself. After testing the armour himself, Sergios deems it satisfactory and hires them as the royal armourers. The Patriarch of Constantinople offers to send a bishop to the Napoli court, but seeing as Sergios has just given positions to a formerly Muslim family, he worries that the bishop will get the wrong impression and politely refuses the offer.

The Emperor dies in November, leaving the throne to a 6 year old (who is still better suited for the job than Emperor Dukas was), and leaving Sergios as the second in line to the throne. Kosmas is old enough for a proper upbringing, but Sergios is worried that he will be unable to handle the strain of raising two children in addition to his duties, and sends the boy off to the nannies. This is justified when Sergios begins to seem a bit frayed a few months later.

Construction on the library finishes in Siracusa, and Sergios begins construction on a tile factory, as well as a forestry in Capua to satisfy the people there. The people of Trapani content themselves during this period of relative lack of focus on them by designing a church which combines Arabic and Byzantine influences. Capuans try to prove that they are superior by designing a bigger Byzantine church.

After 9 years of marriage, Sergios falls inexplicably and deeply in love with his wife. One reason that is offered is because he's losing his edge and needs someone to support him, and he's realized how much support his wife has provided for him throughout the years.

June marks two crazy events: The question of whether or not a tree in the forest makes a sound when no one is around to observe it was answered in Siracusa, as said tree then proceeded to demolish a peasant's house with a very large boom. A military engineer was inspired by this, and harnessed the power of a moving tree in a battering ram for the local army division. Sadly, despite a glorious history of siegeworks by the Romans, this is now the most advanced siege weapon technology in all of Italy. Also, an abnormally large boar (as in, 8 feet long) began terrorizing Napoli, and Sergios quickly sent out letters encouraging all of his neighbours to help track the beast down in a great hunt and slay it. The Count himself scored the killing blow, but the most important outcome of this was the response of the Count of Salerno...

The Count of Salerno refused to come, believing that Sergios had made the whole thing up. Furthermore, he then proceeded to sent a nasty letter Sergios accusing him of being a liar, a bloodthirsty maniac, and a sodomite. Infuriated, Sergios responded by claiming the Count's title, writing up a declaration of war, marching the royal army to Salerno, and shoving the declaration in the Count's face before besieging the city (thus proving 2 out of 3 of those arguments true).

The tile factory in Napoli is completed, but with no one there to staff it, it will have to sit unused until the war is completed. Similarly, Nikephoros becomes old enough to be raised properly, but without his father there to make a decision on his upbringing, he is sent to join Kosmas with the nannies. Some good comes out of Sergios' mad march, as the people in Capua think that he's finally lost his mind and will go after them next, and so the peasants choose to end the revolts peaceably in exchange for widescale introduction of poultry from Napoli farms.

The library in Trapani is completed, and soon afterwards a lost Greek work is discovered by the library in Siracusa. Plans for a castle are drawn up in Napoli to commemorate Sergios' inevitable victory. Speaking of which, the County of Salerno surrenders in November, although the Count flees before Sergios can exact his vengeance. He takes it out on the people, who are forced at swordpoint to swear their undying loyalty to the Count of Napoli. Sergios marches home, introduces the people of Napoli to a new type of handaxe that the people of Salerno were using, and announces that he has big plans for the coming months.

As the new year turns once again, Konstantinos has finally become old enough for a formal education. Following the old Spartenos tradition for eldest sons, Sergios sends the lad off to the army, providing specific instructions to the officers that his son be treated like any other new recruit. Showing how efficient they can be when not in revolt, the people of Capua complete construction of a forestry.

Chancellor Zoe finally begins to appear less stressed. Could this have something to do with Sergios' big plans? In sadder news, the Countess falls ill: Sergios tries to visit her, but his workload is too overwhelming to allow for much time.

A man is found asleep in front of Sergios' palace. When woken up and questioned as to what he was doing there, the man merely responded that he was following the will of the Almighty. After further questioning to make sure that the man wasn't a lunatic, it was ascertained that the man's name was Georgios Katrares, and that he was the bishop that the Patriarch had offered to send to Napoli several months ago. One day, he just decided to leave the city and, after several months of travelling, ended up where he was originally supposed to be assigned. Awed at the forces that had led Georgios there, the Count pronounces him to be Napoli's first Diocese Bishop.

In June, the illegitimate son of Roger Guiscard: the Count of Consenza Bohemond de Hauteville, argues that Sergios' men are exerting Neapolitan influence on land that rightfully belongs to him. Sergios argues the reverse. Tempers fly, and both men have to be dragged away from the scene by their retainers as they swear vengeance on one another.

Education comes to Napoli, specifically knowledge of the Seven Liberal Arts. Sergios is ecstatic, and begins looking for talented artists to cater to a now intellectually curious elite population. The courtiers of a fallen Greek principality are welcomed to Napoli, and they spread news that the child Emperor Basileios has somehow managed to reunite most of the Western part of the Byzantine Emperor, although everything from Anatolia eastward seems to be irrevocably lost to powerful princes and the Turks. In mundane news, a tile factory is completed in Siracusa.

August 1st, 1076 - Sergios' big plans are revealed: At a lavish ceremony in the capital, he announces that Napoli has once again achieved glory and that he can finally hold himself proudly to his ancestral title as the "Duke of Napoli". However, instead choosing to recognize the value of all the peoples of his desmesne, Sergios abandons the title, instead proclaiming that his rule will be symbolized by the newest people to come under Spartenos guidance: And with that, Bishop Katrares anointed the former Count, and proclaimed him to be Sergios Spartenos, Prince of Salerno.
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Voting Time!

By becoming the Prince of Salerno, Sergios has now become the most powerful vassal in the Byzantine Empire. A Spartenos probably will become the next Emperor. But should one?

Hail Caesar! (Wait until Basileios dies, whenever that is, and become the next Emperor. Basically, follow the normal Byzantine succession order.)

I am Deus et Dominus, and so is my successor! (Wait until Basileios dies, switch the succession order as soon as possible so that it will stay with the Spartenos family.)

The Empire is a business, and I hope to make it a family one. (Assassinate Basileios, switch the succession order as soon as possible.)

UNLIMITED POWAAHH!! (Assassinate Basileios, leave the succession order intact.)

Florida Recount (Become the Empire by normal means, then rig every election afterwards by making a Spartenos the most powerful vassal, but leave the law intact.)

Let's have an election, Dictator style! (Assassinate Basileios, keep the succession law, but rig every election afterwards by having a Spartenos as the most powerful vassal.)

I shall make my own destiny. (Break free of the Byzantine Empire at some point, and try to create a kingdom, probably Sicily.)
 
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When Sergios swore allegiance to the Byzantine Empire, one of the things he did was switch around the titles of his local nobillity for Greek ones. Unfortunately, over 230 years of independence meant that none of the positions corresponded, so Sergios just ended up assigning titles that he heard at the Emperor's court to his knights and influential families. Of course, this caused even more confusion, as it meant that the nobles not only had meaningless titles, but meaningless titles that corresponded to the highest ranks in Byzantine government. Eventually the whole system was scrapped when Sergios...

That's fantastic. I've seen this happen in LARP organizations.

There's sort of a Mafia-meets-the-Three-Stooges vibe to the entire update. I've always had a soft spot for the Spartenos family. It's a shame that one guy had to die over a salt refinery. I especially love this cry, with its shades of Launch Every Zig: "How could this happen!" Poor bastards. Well done. Keep it up.
 
I shall make my own destiny.

Rome lies in the east, you are in the west.
You don't want to get as corrupted as the Byzantine Empire is.
What about Kingdom of Africa?
After you have conquered Sicily, de Hautevilles can keep their shitty provinces, but you can take the rich Tunis and Kairuan. ;)
 
Progress is interrupted by the Pope, who once again sends out a hunting invitation. Sergios once again refuses, and gets back to work, ordering construction on a library in Trapani to match the one in Siracusa. In November, the Pope dies in a hunting accident.

:)

The Emperor dies in November, leaving the throne to a 6 year old (who is still better suited for the job than Emperor Dukas was)

:D

This is really very good!


I vote for:

Hail Caesar! (Wait until Basileios dies, whenever that is, and become the next Emperor. Basically, follow the normal Byzantine succession order.)

Although assassinating the kid sounds like a tempting plan. :D He'll probably die of a cold anyway. I'd rather not see this become a Byzantine game, so maybe take a turn as Emperor, but leave the family ties in Naples. You could probably take the chance to knock the Guiscard sideways once you get the laurel crown!
 
The Empire is a business, and I hope to make it a family one. (Assassinate Basileios, switch the succession order as soon as possible.)

This. Good update. :)
 
Florida Recount (Become the Empire by normal means, then rig every election afterwards by making a Spartenos the most powerful vassal, but leave the law intact.)

This. Being Byzantine Emperor is fun for a while, but often ends up being a game of crushing revolting counties and (trying to hold off) holding off the coming of the Turks.
 
The Empire is a business, and I hope to make it a family one.

Rich lands in Anatolia, opportunities to vassalize Russia and crush pagans, coolness.

If it comes down to two other options, I say go off to Tunisia, form Africa, and eventually form an Arabo-Greek Kingdom of Africa, Egypt, Sicily, and Mauretania.
 
I haven't started playing yet, but a thought just came up:

If by some chance, I was to become the Emperor before I could form another kingdom, would the people who want me to form an independent kingdom rather that I remain Emperor or give the title away as soon as possible?
 
I haven't started playing yet, but a thought just came up:

If by some chance, I was to become the Emperor before I could form another kingdom, would the people who want me to form an independent kingdom rather that I remain Emperor or give the title away as soon as possible?

Give the Emperor-title away and form your own Empire.
Or transfer the Byzantine central authority to Italy, Rome could be ruled from Napoli. :D
 
We've once again come across a tie: between Sergios becoming the founder of the Spartenos dynasty of Byzantium and forming his own kingdom. Considering that the narrative tends to former the latter, that is the path we shall be taking unless someone votes otherwise.

It's gonna be an even longer update than last time though, considering how long it would take to get to the point of becoming Sicily or whatever.

EDIT: Vote is closed, and update is complete. But it'll take a while for me to think of something good, as there's like 5 pages of document without spaces recounting 14 years that it takes to become Sicily (Sorry to those of you who wanted to become France or expand into Africa, but the Spartenos family just didn't have the powerbase to go around conquering frivolously until the last year or so, and even that was a fluke. Now that we actually have 20,000 soldiers or so to work with, things become slightly easier in that regard, and where Sergios will conquer next is the subject of the update's vote.). There will also be a bonus update describing Sicilian culture and the proper ranks of Sicilian nobility, since Sergios finally has a banner under which he can unite his people (as opposed to them being pseudo-Byzantines).
 
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