Crown of the North

[Chaingun]

Crown of the North

Game: Crown of the North (hey it's the name of this CK game )
Scenario: Modified 1066 (see why below)
Dynasties: Duchies in Sweden (and Norway where appropriate)
Day: Sundays (starting this Sunday the 31st)
Time: 13.00 CET (GMT + 1)
Players wanted: Mainly Scandinavians, but other Europeans are welcome too, about 4-8 people
Status: Theoretically full, but we'll need subs
GM: Enigma (I)
Co-GM: Gen. Joohoo
Host: To be determined

Player list (and ICQ):
Enigma (150 858 672) – Duke of Uppland
Joohoo (298 342 882) - Duke of Västergötland, King of Sweden
Devil (95 526 937) - Duke of Skåne, King of Denmark
Seen (271 719 753) - Duke of Småland
Krispin (253 554 969) - Duke of Something (we will have to find a new duchy)
Byakhim (328 925 130) - Duke of Akerhus, King of Norway
Nitram (190 638 897) - Duke of Bergen
Gatenhielm (166 783 491) - Duke of Something to be determined

This will be an attempt to play a game of Crusader Kings based on the Scandinavian peninsula. It is so for two reasons; the first is for increased stability since we do not trust CK completely in 1.03b. It can be argued against in many specific cases, but there is a general trend of increased stability when plotted against decreased distance of connection. The second thing is that mainly Scandinavians would enjoy a game of alternative Scandinavian history (or at least, perhaps it increases the level of play a notch ), but I am sure that as a game it would be enjoyable for any other player. It would also be nice to be able to speak/listen to some Swedish, or Norwegian, or Danish inside the game (unfortunately I don’t understand any Finnish). However we will have to take in other Europeans as I am in doubt there would be enough Scandinavians around.

When it comes to the scenario selection the most important choice that we made was to select the base scenario for this game. We arrived at 1066, because all three primary kingdoms of the game exist (Norway, Sweden and Denmark). Furthermore there are plenty of Finnish and Baltic lands to liberate even though there are house rules about this that you can read below.

Of course, the tiny amount of duchies in the standard 1066 scenario aren’t enough. Therefore we will rearrange the power structure Sweden, Norway and Denmark quite a bit. All duchies that can be created will be created. These duchies will be ruled by the dynasties “of Uppland”, “of Västergötland” etc. since those placeholder dynasty names seem rather convenient (we do not try to exactly recreate history here). Also, all counties that are the standard territory of a duchy will be added as the personal demesne of that duchy’s ruler. These changes may be quite brutal but they are necessary for turning Scandinavia into an interesting playing field for dukes. In order to even out starting conditions a bit certain fictional courtiers will be added to provide players with a solid base for breeding programs.

Regarding house rules there must be quite many because of the focus on Scandinavia of this game. If any are broken a suitable punishment will be invented. I have a long list below that can be changed at the two GMs’ digression:

1. Obey the GMs. Although we aren’t dictators and will strive to apply democracy where possible, we must have full authority if it comes to a situation where it is required.
2. Be on time. We are not responsible for the consequences if you don’t have a sub. We will of course try to get one, but if we don’t find one the AI will manage your dynasty…
3. Owning provinces in any other territory than Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, or any other provinces bordering the Baltic, England, Wales or Scotland is prohibited. This includes having vassals in those areas. The Holy Land is an exception; read below.
4. Each dynasty may own a maximum of two provinces in Muslim lands is Africa or Asia. Once again, I count vassals as owning the province. Also, capturing Jerusalem is also prohibited because it generates massive amounts of piety and prestige if you capture it.
5. Finland and other Baltic provinces are also limited with another rule. Each dynasty may only capture one province in these areas once every five years; this amount starts to accumulate once the Pope calls for a crusade. The reason is to prevent a rush for these provinces, and where the player initially being king will have a great advantage because of the tier of his leader.
6. A player may only change allegiance to another player. That is, you cannot swear fealty to the King of Germany or something similar. Let’s say if you are a duke in Sweden and get overtaxed by the king of Sweden, then and only then may you switch to for example Denmark if a human player has that title.
7. Any inheritance laws are allowed unlike many other games. This is since if players would be forced to use semisalic-primogeniture they would be much less inclined to marry away their daughters to foreign families.
8. Fighting a war against a dynasty that has a daughter married to your ruler or if a daughter of yours if married to their ruler is prohibited if that daughter is alive (and of course that is a required condition of the ruler as well). This is to make marriages more useful as peace factors. An exception is if your liege or vassal forces you into the war at which point you may join to defend him.
9. Max two count titles or one duke or one king title may be taken from an opposing alliance in a player versus player war. An alliance here is defined as multiple players warring against an enemy at the same time, and whether they like it or not the deliberately or undebliberately cooperating players must decide who will get what. If they cannot agree, they may only take one count title each (but a max of two is still applied as a player entering after will get nothing in that case). Also note that vassals are not covered by this rule; you may grab another dynasty’s vassals at will because it’s their job to defend them. Of course they may grab yours as revenge. This rule is up for adjustment as the game progresses and may even be changed in game, because it’s supposed to resemble something of the EU2 decency rules (that is, you do not conquer 100% of an enemy in one war).
10. Once the entire demesne of a player has been captured he is forced to sign peace to whatever terms the enemy makes (but it has to follow the rule above).
11. You may marry AI dynasties outside of the designated areas for expansion (Scandinavia, the Baltic surroundings, and Britain). Beware that you may not inherit anything however! If you still manage to do that it will be a cause of massive edit penalties in the save game after the session (I am thinking of negative gold editing and of course removing any damage done).
12. NEW: Alliances to AI countries may only be accepted/proposed in the same designated areas as above. The reason is that else a lot of countries will get involved even if they have absolutely nothing to do with this campaign. Also, it would risk them to take territories of our areas; Bohemia conquering Öland for example would not be funny.

And last, a map of the scenario:

 

[Spinalcurve]

just confirm I am a player of this game

 

[Chaingun]

This is a preliminary list of duchies and with the associated countries that you can choose from:

Sweden:
Småland (taken) - Småland, Finnveden, Öland and Kalmar Län
Uppland (taken) - Uppland, Västmanland and Åland
Östergötland - Östergötland, Södermanland, Närke
Västergötland - Västergötland, Dal and Gästrikland (the last two as vassals and you are king)
Bergslagen - Dalarna and Värmland
Norrland - Hälsingland, Medelpad, Ångermanland, Västerbotten

Denmark:
Skåne (taken) - Skåne, Halland, Bornholm and perhaps Rügen
Sjaelland - Sjaelland, Fyn (Kingdom of Denmark)
Slesvig - Slesvig, Jylland

Norway:
Bergen - Bergenhus, Agder, Rogaland and Telemark
Akerhus - Akerhus, Vestfold and Oppland (you'll be king with Härjedalen as a vassal)
Trondelag - Trondelag, Hdemark, Naumadal and Hålogaland

Note: I would prefer as many people in Sweden as possible .

 

[Chaingun]

Devil says he's in, but I'll have to remind him about choosing a duchy...

 

[devil]

Skåne

 

[Chaingun]

To quote: "Mainly Scandinavians, but other Europeans are welcome too, about 4-8 people"

This means that although we like to have as many Scandinavians in the game as possible other Europeans will be accepted. I did edit the post now because it wasn't clear with the original wording.

EDIT: I have now managed to create new duchies and remove counties, but the lession learnt is that CK is very picky for editing. If you make a minor error anywhere it will crash; additionally there are very many things that must be edited at the same time to be consistant or it will crash.

EDIT2: To be evil I will resign Devil from his king title. I'll hand it out to the one who is the duchy of Sjaelland/Fyn instead (which will probably be AI). I'd prefer to have noone start as king of anything.

 

[Chaingun]

Just to remind people, I'd prefer to have one more player before we start tomorrow. I might have been able to recruit two more but I'd say it's about 50% chance they bother to sign up hehe.

 

[Seen]

Just to remind people, I'd prefer to have one more player before we start tomorrow. I might have been able to recruit two more but I'd say it's about 50% chance they bother to sign up hehe.

Of course you mean me there also

Well, i was just looking in the game on what territory to choise...but they are all so poor, except the kings, but thats something to achive, not to get in the start.

BTW, i was trying to read the rules at the same time (didnt work of course)
But only 1 prov in 5 years, and only in the baltic region? As i see on the map my income will not be higher than 2,5, that will be a very slow game for me then....

Now i didnt succeed in everything like i said, wanted to play nappie, and am going to play some CK NOW , but ill look into it later again...

Its not criticism here, just some small remarks which you can clear for me obviously with your fantastic reasoning

 

[Chaingun]

Hehe, well it is good that people complain about my rules. Else I wouldn't know how to improve them from other players perspectives. So, you think the Pagan limit is too harsh? Then we must do something about it: Either 1) decrease the amount of years between the taking of each province, 2) reform or remove the rule completely.

It's your decision, I only made the preferred rules. Oh, and if you want somewhat wealthy territories you should choose Västergötland (and the connected titles like Närke etc.), or one of the other other Danish duchies that are not already taken. Also, remember this is not the standard scenario and you'll probably have at least 2 wealthy or 3 otherwise moderate counties under your direct control. I think that speaks for it itself.

I'll try to finish a preliminary version of the scenario tonight, because I'm now growing somewhat comfortable with editing although it's still a knit-picky job that demands constant attention to details.

 

[Seen]

Ok, i played a game this night with the middle scenerio which made me realise that your rule maybe is a wise one. We all played a king of a northern country, and from the start we went landgrabbing so the others wouldnt take it . Of course wenn we start in1066, you dont have enough money for that...but still....well, maybe shorten it to 4 years to take one prov?

But par example i want to expand that max 2 provs in the middle east, obviously in one war to defeat my potential enemy i need to take a lot more provs just to defeat him, but then im braking the rule.....

and one comment one rule number 11, isnt the hole idea of this game managing your dynesty with marriage, rather than with combat? (seeing your first few rules thats exactly what you wanted to achive...) But not allowing inheritance from a good arranged marriage or assasination you are only left with filling up your treasury and then invade a human opponent, and whoever wins that war, will , well, just win. a bit one sided if you ask me.

 

[Chaingun]

About the Holy Land and defeating an enemy: You actually don't need to capture provinces to defeat them. It is enough to kill off their armies.

The marriage rule I have because else the fight will not become centered in Scandinavia which is the idea of this game (eg. you're much more likely to have the human players spread out all over France, England, Poland, the Balkans etc.). You are still allowed to marry outside Scandinavia, but watch it so you don't inherit anything or it will be edited away.

EDIT: Seen suggested that we should allow players to fight and inherit on the British isle because it was closely connected to Scandinavia during this period. We'll vote for that tonight before game starts.

 

[NitramDatsgnos]

I'd like to play Bergen, please.

Norway:
Bergen - Bergenhus, Agder, Rogaland and Telemark
Akerhus - Akerhus, Vestfold and Oppland (you'll be king with Härjedalen as a vassal)
Trondelag - Trondelag, Hdemark, Naumadal and Hålogaland

Some counties and a duchy are missing here: Viken, Caitness, Shetland, Faroe Islands and Orkney (Duchy). Are they not part of Norway at the start?

 

[Chaingun]

Any Scandinavian duchies should be playable from start (except the ones I've deliberately left out for the purpose of game balance, like Östergötland and Gotland). I'll do some research about Orkney then, if anyone does want to play them.

 

[Seen]

And I will follow your recommendation and be your fellow Swedish Duke in Småland (obviously i copy/pasted it because i cant make that redicioulos O on the A ). Since Joohoo wants to play king or something...play is say, not be ..... hehe

And to make my historical argument more true, here something from the history book/atlas:

Well, William the Conquerer was of norman origin, he ruled from 1066-87, and the empire of Cnut the Great overlapped England till 1035...so threre are very legitamite claims for "us" nordic people in england

 

[Spinalcurve]

here is the AAR section if you like: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159706

 

[Seen]

here is the AAR section if you like: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159706

Well, obviously untill the game starts its a BAR thread....

 

[Spinalcurve]

yes Mr. Besserwisser

 

[Seen]

yes Mr. Besserwisser

Thats why i should be king , obviously, thnx for pointing that out yourself o great king

 

[Seen]

game is on 145.99.240.34

now btw.........

 

[Spinalcurve]

short session but fun, sad that Nitram's computer overheated and Jarski was rebooting to long.