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Auspend

Auspend

First Lieutenant
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Aug 1, 2002
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Hmm... In the FAQ it says that when you go to war you can only take provinces you have a claim on. What about during Crusades; will you be able to take lands from the infidels? And if you can, what determines what lands you can take? Will you only be able to take things from the Holy Land? Or will there be an option for creating crusader states from the lands you take?
 
Originally posted by Auspend
Hmm... In the FAQ it says that when you go to war you can only take provinces you have a claim on. What about during Crusades; will you be able to take lands from the infidels? And if you can, what determines what lands you can take? Will you only be able to take things from the Holy Land? Or will there be an option for creating crusader states from the lands you take?
Click to expand...

Well historically you didn't need a CB to fight the infidels. That's why the Crusades in the Holy Land, Iberia, and the Baltic were so popular: free land to conquer.
 
I agree with BB. And I am looking forward to being constrained in my land grabs. :)
 
Originally posted by Auspend
Hmm... In the FAQ it says that when you go to war you can only take provinces you have a claim on. What about during Crusades; will you be able to take lands from the infidels? And if you can, what determines what lands you can take? Will you only be able to take things from the Holy Land? Or will there be an option for creating crusader states from the lands you take?
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the rules are different within the Christian world (you can only take land that you have a CB to) and non-Christian lands (which you can take by right of conquest). They also say that you'll never be able to get permanent peace with your non-Christian neighbors. At best, you'll get a truce. That'll make the border nations quite interesting: if you are strong enough to keep expanding, you'll get some superstate. However, if you are to weak, your non-Christian neighbors will keep expanding at your expense. . .

And then the Mongols come . . . :D

Alexandre
 
Can you conquer outright, or would you need to create vassals?

It's a long way from Sweden to Jerusalem, and it would seem to be difficult to rule them directly with the medieval speed of travel and communication.
 
Originally posted by savronela
Can you conquer outright, or would you need to create vassals?

It's a long way from Sweden to Jerusalem, and it would seem to be difficult to rule them directly with the medieval speed of travel and communication.
Click to expand...

If you are in Sweden, why bother with Jerusalem? You have all those pagans so much nearer home to convert, plus schismatic Russians not much further...
 
What I'm more interested in is, since CK is often described as a 'dynastic' simulation, what will happen if one or more of your male heirs get involved in the Crusades and stay in the Holy Land for good?
 
Originally posted by Demetrios


If you are in Sweden, why bother with Jerusalem? You have all those pagans so much nearer home to convert, plus schismatic Russians not much further...
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What will Igmar Bergman do if you don't?

Historically Swedish knights fought in the Crusades. I was more curious if any European state can rule territory outright in the Middle East outright, or if they will need to establish vassals there and hope for the best.
 
Originally posted by tuna
What I'm more interested in is, since CK is often described as a 'dynastic' simulation, what will happen if one or more of your male heirs get involved in the Crusades and stay in the Holy Land for good?
Click to expand...

Well, remember that some of the Counts of Flanders were also Latin Emperors. So presumably, you can combine titles. Also, from what has been said, you can split your lands should you gain too much to rule effectively, so one son can have the Holy Land lands and one can rule the original territory. This may be the only plausable solution in cases where the lands are so far apart.
 
Originally posted by Demetrios


Well, remember that some of the Counts of Flanders were also Latin Emperors. So presumably, you can combine titles. Also, from what has been said, you can split your lands should you gain too much to rule effectively, so one son can have the Holy Land lands and one can rule the original territory. This may be the only plausable solution in cases where the lands are so far apart.
Click to expand...
There are numerous of other examples of combined titles - also in the Holy Land... Fulk, count of Anjou and king of Jerusalem; Henri, count of Champagne and king of J.; Conrad, marquis of Montferrat and k. of J etc... (Not to forget Frederick and his son Conrad, HRE, kings of Naples and Sicily and J.)

I would assume that you could hold any piece of your realm as your demesne, regardless of where it is. Let's say a Swedish king manage to become king of Jerusalem (absurd idea, isn't it? :p ;)) - The k. of J. held enormous prestige, so his best bet would be to reside from Jerusalem, putting vassals in charge back home...
 
Originally posted by Havard
I would assume that you could hold any piece of your realm as your demesne, regardless of where it is. Let's say a Swedish king manage to become king of Jerusalem (absurd idea, isn't it? :p ;)) - The k. of J. held enormous prestige, so his best bet would be to reside from Jerusalem, putting vassals in charge back home...
Click to expand...

Sorry for not being clear in my original post. What Havard has mentioned in the last sentence above was what I was alluding to: Will (or can) the focus of a game shift completely from Western Europe to the Holy Land? I.E. player giving up direct control of his previous holdings in Europe (due to tremendous success in the Crusades) and continue playing the dynasty in, say, Jerusalem?
 
Sergie has said that some members of the dynasty will "grey out" on the family tree and become less playible, so I guess you could grant one son your european lands and let that side of the family "grey out"
 
Originally posted by historycaesar
Sergie has said that some members of the dynasty will "grey out" on the family tree and become less playible, so I guess you could grant one son your european lands and let that side of the family "grey out"
Click to expand...

Ok, thank you now. My anticipation grew even higher and soon i will start eating my furniture to contain my anxiety. :)
 
Originally posted by historycaesar
Sergie has said that some members of the dynasty will "grey out" on the family tree and become less playible, so I guess you could grant one son your european lands and let that side of the family "grey out"
Click to expand...

Cool!
 
Heh, What happened Alexandre? I assume it had something to do with the forum "going up and down more than a Scots kilt" (as BiB put it) :D
 
I sure hope that I can claim the lands of distant relatives, should they "unfortunately" pass away...;)
 
Originally posted by Onslaught
I sure hope that I can claim the lands of distant relatives, should they "unfortunately" pass away...;)
Click to expand...

I would definitely think that would be the case!
 
Re: Re: Crusades

Originally posted by Alexandre
From what I understand, the rules are different within the Christian world (you can only take land that you have a CB to) and non-Christian lands (which you can take by right of conquest).
Click to expand...

i wish someone would have told that to the catalans :p

the rules were somewhat different with regard to the "pope's experiment" and the "schismatic greeks" (a phrase that is somewhat strange considering that after the eighth ecumenical council it is the west that is heretical for adopting the filioque, but anyway...)

the catalans held the duchy of athens for some seventy years, and only by right of conquest (during this time there were titular dukes of athens in france)

nerio acciajuoli, who took it from them, also held it only by right of conquest; it was his bastard son (i think; maybe nephew) antonio who was the first to be officially invested as "duke of athens and thebes" since brienne

...but even then the aragonese refused to recognize him :p

steph
 
Re: Re: Re: Crusades

Originally posted by Iostephanos

nerio acciajuoli, who took it from them, also held it only by right of conquest; it was his bastard son (i think; maybe nephew) antonio who was the first to be officially invested as "duke of athens and thebes" since brienne
Click to expand...

Antonio was his son
 
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