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unmerged(28633)

Recruit
May 4, 2004
9
0
Technical Problem

Game Version & Patch (incl. country):UK-1.08

OS & build/SP:win98

Computer, CPU & speed:celeron 1.3

RAM:512

Free HDD space:4.17gb

Video (brand, model, driver, memory):g4mx,53.04,128mb

Sound (brand, model, driver): pci64

DirectX Version:9.0b

Other:

I read the stickies but I still have the following problem:
game ctd when I surrender and I get a Ddhelp message,I run dx tests and it was ok(though when I run dxdiag without rebooting after crash it gives a directdraw error) there are no other problems with the game.
 
I commonly get this problem as well, with fairly similar system specs. I suspect a DirectX conflict under win98SE.
 
Exactly, this happens on win9x all the time. Only fix is to go to Win2000 or XP.
 
Renaming the AVI folder to AVI_back has helped a lot of people with the same issue, although it does persit for some.
 
Castellon said:
Renaming the AVI folder to AVI_back has helped a lot of people with the same issue, although it does persit for some.
Sorry Castellon, I did that over a year ago just to get in quicker. Personally, I don't believe renaming the avi folder is quite the panacea you think it is.

How is it that renaming the avi folder can have any effect on crashing once the game is fully loaded?
 
It does believe me, I have been doing this for a while. ;)

The problem is not with the AVI files themselves. It is with the Bink player that plays them. Renaming the AVI folder stops the Bink player from being loaded into memory.

The Bink player has several problems some of which manifest when playing the Videos, the majority of which manifest when playing the game. You see the problem is that it does not take itself out of memory properly, this as you can imagine leads to all kinds of problems. Yes even when running the game.

That is why it is the first thing that needs to be eliminated. ;)
 
Castellon said:
Okay I hunted down the definative thread on the subject of this problem for those whom the AVI rename does not help. I was one that the rename fixed the problem completely which is how I know for a fact it works for some. :)

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122150
Very interesting. A couple of questions on that:

1. Do you know if Johan has been able to implement changes in CK, for example, that remove these problems?

2. Do you know if anyone managed to reduce the problem by adjusting their DirectX resolution to match that of their monitor?

3. Why would DirectX not use the standard monitor resolution as a default where possible?
 
Owen said:
Sorry Castellon, I did that over a year ago just to get in quicker. Personally, I don't believe renaming the avi folder is quite the panacea you think it is.

How is it that renaming the avi folder can have any effect on crashing once the game is fully loaded?
It can, if the BinkPlayer used in the cinematics doesn't release all resources (DirectX or Win API) it has claimed. Win9X has a very, very limited amount of memory reserved (2 * 64 KB, and this is fixed) for all system related resources like mouse arrows, menu bars, window handles, etc. If this area fills up, then Windows API calls will start to fail, and most applications (especially Microsoft ones, or applications generated with Microsoft tools) will behave erraticly or even crash. This is, for example, why you cannot run MS Word or MS Excel for long periods of time on a Win9X based system. Especially Excel leaks like crazy.

Now, how can the resource memory area become full? Two reasons. The first and obvious one is when you run too many resource hungry applications concurrently. Secondly, one of the apps leaks resources. In other words, resources get created/allocated without getting freed. This too is a serious problem on win9x, as win9x doesn't contain a robust resource garbage collector to clean up the mess, created by sloppy programmers and/or library packages. Win2K OTOH does, which is why leaking resources on a Win2K platform doesn't have the nasty consequences it has on win9x based systems, even though applications would enjoy speed benefits if they would not leak. Mind you, eventually Win2K will start to fail if a leaking app is run continously. Leaked resources will take up memory, and sooner or later the swap file is filled up to the max. Then the app will start to behave erraticly on Win2K systems as well.

Having said all this, I do believe the ultimate problem is within EU2 itself (and it's probably a resource leak) as I get slammed with this problem with long EU2 play sessions, and not with short ones. What probably happens is that for some DirectX related calls some defaults are assumed that, through the drivers, are true for most systems. One some systems (mine included) these default assumptions are probably not true, and hence the failures. This problem will most likely go away if all calls have all their initialisations explicit, so there is no reliance on (driver supplied) defaults, and each resource acquisition is followed by an explicit call to release that resource.

Mind you, it is very easy to mess up in this area without even knowing it. I've had a similar experience when a wrote the library code that takes care of print jobs for our applications. Initially I setup the Device Context once, after creating the print job. And for our HP laser printers with HP drivers, that was fine. These drives automatically carry the device context initialisations over from page to page. However, other brand drivers didn't do that, and thus only page 1 of a job got printed correctly. For those drivers, the programmer was appearantly responsible for re-initialising the device context for every new page of the print job. And, worst of all, this isn't documented anywhere. So, if a programmer only works with HP laserprinters, he would never know he was relying on default vendor specific behaviour instead of documented Windows standardised behaviour.

Jan Peter
 
Owen said:
Very interesting. A couple of questions on that:

1. Do you know if Johan has been able to implement changes in CK, for example, that remove these problems?

2. Do you know if anyone managed to reduce the problem by adjusting their DirectX resolution to match that of their monitor?

3. Why would DirectX not use the standard monitor resolution as a default where possible?
1. To be honest I did not get around to bringing this up with him, but since Win 98 is an unsupported operating system now, I doubt it would be on his 10 ten TODO list.
In fact I think they changed the min specs on Vic to be atleast Win 98SE although that was related to networking.

2. The man to talk to about it just posted above me.

3. One word Microsoft! :)
 
Castellon said:
1. To be honest I did not get around to bringing this up with him, but since Win 98 is an unsupported operating system now, I doubt it would be on his 10 ten TODO list.
In fact I think they changed the min specs on Vic to be atleast Win 98SE although that was related to networking.

2. The man to talk to about it just posted above me.

3. One word Microsoft! :)
1. OK. I do have 98SE not 98 though.

2. Well jpd? :)

3. :D
 
Owen said:
2. Well jpd? :)
See above. I think I explained quite throroughly what I think is going wrong :D

EDIT: Come to think about it, it is probably a sound related resource leak that is causing the problems. I know for a fact (through personal experience) that the sound code in EU2 relies on undocumented driver supplied defaults, instead of full initialisation and closing of sound resources. That's why EU2's sound is completely messed up if you use an Creative Audigy with VxD drivers, and on the surface seems fine with the WDM drivers.

The only problem that remains is that a sound related problem doesn't explain the reduced sensitivity when switching to a different monitor. Unless, of course, using a different monitor reduces resource usage in the video department and thus gives more room for the sound section to mess up before the leaks become fatal. ;)

Jan Peter
 
Last edited:
jpd said:
See above. I think I explained quite throroughly what I think is going wrong :D

EDIT: Come to think about it, it is probably a sound related resource leak that is causing the problems. I know for a fact (through personal experience) that the sound code in EU2 relies on undocumented driver supplied defaults, instead of full initialisation and closing of sound resources. That's why EU2's sound is completely messed up if you use an Creative Audigy with VxD drivers, and on the surface seems fine with the WDM drivers.

Jan Peter
So, it's unlikely that changing the DirectX screen resolution has an impact, even though it appeared to in your previous thread?
 
Owen said:
So, it's unlikely that changing the DirectX screen resolution has an impact, even though it appeared to in your previous thread?
Yup. And in the other thread I didn't change screen resolution. What changed was the monitor, and only the monitor. Screen resolution and color depth were identical for both monitors.

Jan Peter
 
jpd said:
Yup. And in the other thread I didn't change screen resolution. What changed was the monitor, and only the monitor. Screen resolution and color depth were identical for both monitors.

Jan Peter
OK. Thanks. :)
 
I think he was asking about changing specs in the DX like Andrew suggest, you were going to try it, but I don't know if you did or what success if any you had.
 
Castellon said:
I think he was asking about changing specs in the DX like Andrew suggest, you were going to try it, but I don't know if you did or what success if any you had.
I see. No. I haven't gotten around to that yet. The reason is HoI MP. As only in HoI MP I am guaranteed to trigger the failure upon exit, I need someone not only to play with, but also with the patience to let me perform these various tests. My usual MP friend who has all these qualifications has been extremely busy the past couple of months, so I was unable to try these combinations.

Jan Peter
 
jpd said:
Having said all this, I do believe the ultimate problem is within EU2 itself (and it's probably a resource leak) as I get slammed with this problem with long EU2 play sessions, and not with short ones.
exactly
when I load a scenerio and quit right after it NEVER crashes(at least it never did till now),and when I play normal(2-3hours) it ALWAYS crashed.
I tried renaming,its same.

but I figured it can also be helpful since I only surrender when I want to quit the game,and it makes that faster :D
 
Just remember to reboot before you try and play the game again, or another app that uses DX.