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Culture conversion in the way you talk about didn’t exist during the game’s time frame.

20 to 80 years to culturally convert a region is just ahistorical fantasy bullshit. The way regions changed culture was through supplanting the existing population and replacing it. They didn’t convert, certainly not rural people. They were replaced by the original inhabitants dying out or being expelled.

Hopefully Paradox fixes this before release. If not, modders will have to fix the game for them.
How is this being upvoted? Culture conversion absolutely existed. Check Islamic Iberia, the Arabs and Berbers were a minority and the culture of Al-Andalus was still heavily arabized. Welsh culture was heavily anglicised without population replacement. North African culture was heavily arabized without population replacement.

Of course culture conversion in 80 years is bullshit, but culture conversion over a long time is real even without genocide.
 
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Culture conversion in the way you talk about didn’t exist during the game’s time frame.

20 to 80 years to culturally convert a region is just ahistorical fantasy bullshit. The way regions changed culture was through supplanting the existing population and replacing it. They didn’t convert, certainly not rural people. They were replaced by the original inhabitants dying out or being expelled.

Hopefully Paradox fixes this before release. If not, modders will have to fix the game for them.
No, there were strong cases of cultural assimilation and gradual colonisation. Turks never slaughtered entire population of Constantinople, but after a few decades it was a Turkish-Greek city. Poles never slaughtered Lithuanians and Ukrainians, yet after some time you had big Polish speaking populations in those large eastern areas of commonwealth. Maybe 20 years is way too fast indeed, but for 80 or a century seems quite plausible, provided there is strong effort, good modifiers, etc.
 
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No, there were strong cases of cultural assimilation and gradual colonisation. Turks never slaughtered entire population of Constantinople, but after a few decades it was a Turkish-Greek city. Poles never slaughtered Lithuanians and Ukrainians, yet after some time you had big Polish speaking populations in those large eastern areas of commonwealth. Maybe 20 years is way too fast indeed, but for 80 or a century seems quite plausible, provided there is strong effort, good modifiers, etc.
Constantinople was really just repopulation iirc. The city was really depopulated when it was taken, and Turks brought in a ton of migrants.
 
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Or large population of Greeks still living in the Ottoman state nearly 500 years after the fall of Constantinopolis.

That's worrying. I remember Johan saying something that assimilation and convertion is slow, so slow that provinces will never be fully converted/assimilated, as natural growth will outpace the convertion/assimilation rate. It's disappointing if it won't be the case.
This is true that large greek minorities survived in large areas of what is now Turkey. It is also true that when Seljuks invaded Anatolia, they culturally assimilated large part of Greek speaking population in its inner parts in few decades. Cultural conversion is a very complex problem. Perhaps it should be more difficult than it is now, but should be doable.
 
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Constantinople was really just repopulation iirc. The city was really depopulated when it was taken, and Turks brought in a ton of migrants.
This is largely true, although some greeks survived, and many immigrated there again alongside Turks. Anyway, it happened in a few decades. How would you then portray it in game, if not through cultural conversion mechanics? If it has a system like in Victoria 3 where you can change culture of a region mostly through directed migration, I would be fine with that.
 
This is largely true, although some greeks survived, and many immigrated there again alongside Turks. Anyway, it happened in a few decades. How would you then portray it in game, if not through cultural conversion mechanics? If it has a system like in Victoria 3 where you can change culture of a region mostly through directed migration, I would be fine with that.
With the in game pop movement? I guess if not handled by event, the province would have high carrying capacity, and the state encouraged migration to it and invested in the city.
 
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This is largely true, although some greeks survived, and many immigrated there again alongside Turks. Anyway, it happened in a few decades. How would you then portray it in game, if not through cultural conversion mechanics? If it has a system like in Victoria 3 where you can change culture of a region mostly through directed migration, I would be fine with that.
By migration mechanic, obviously. I'd assume there was no conversion at all except maybe few people, but mostly drawing population (of any ethnicity) into the new seat of the sultan.
 
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The reason culture conversion is fast is because you need primary or accepted culture to make provinces cores. This is why the ai is aggressive in culture converting too. If you want to make culture conversion slower you have to change how cores work.
 
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Hm... See I like those examples but I will note you're mostly talking about language. Culture absolutely is not one dimensional. For example, would you say the Irish converted to English when they started speaking English? I would say no. Language is something more mutable with culture than other parts imo.
Is there a clean simple way to handle this in a game? No. Full stop. But, I think my proposal at least gets us closer than what we saw in the streamer previews.
"Did Irish convert to English" - no and yes. The determining factor for maintaining Irish identity was more Catholicism and less language or heritage. See Yola, Fingallian, and English colonists who are English in origin yet blended into Irish identity by speaking the same Hiberno-English and being Catholic.
 
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The reason culture conversion is fast is because you need primary or accepted culture to make provinces cores. This is why the ai is aggressive in culture converting too. If you want to make culture conversion slower you have to change how cores work.
or how acceptance works, maybe it could changed that the culture needs to have a positive opinion before it can be accepted.
But Im not a game designer, the devs can figure it out im sure if the community agrees.
 
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One way to solve this would be to separate the culture of the nobles and burgers from the commoners and have the culture of the nobles and burgers weigh more than the commoners. I agree with Sirbab that culture conversion should depend on a variety of different inputs, but it could ignore the commoners.
 
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Pretty sure you'll be able to "culture convert" as fast as you want by parking levies in a location, starving it of food, and then repopulating it afterwards (based off of some of the preview videos).
 
By migration mechanic, obviously. I'd assume there was no conversion at all except maybe few people, but mostly drawing population (of any ethnicity) into the new seat of the sultan.
No, there were many conversions too. When Turks arrived in Anatolia, it was maybe 100k among 7 milion population. Obviously many people assimilated over time.
 
The reason culture conversion is fast is because you need primary or accepted culture to make provinces cores. This is why the ai is aggressive in culture converting too. If you want to make culture conversion slower you have to change how cores work.
You don't have to. I want it to be slow and difficult to get cores just as I want conversions to be slow and difficult.
One of the reasons I barely played eu4 compared to eu3 is because I hated how quick and easy it was to convert and core in eu4.
 
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Culture conversion in the way you talk about didn’t exist during the game’s time frame.

20 to 80 years to culturally convert a region is just ahistorical fantasy bullshit. The way regions changed culture was through supplanting the existing population and replacing it. They didn’t convert, certainly not rural people. They were replaced by the original inhabitants dying out or being expelled.

Hopefully Paradox fixes this before release. If not, modders will have to fix the game for them.
Certainly population replacement did occur, specially in the Americas, as a way to "culture convert" a region.

However, it wasn't the only way in which a region "changed its culture" during the timeframe of the game. There were cases were the predominant culture of the ruling class was favoured over local cultures and, gradually, the local peoples began adopting the culture of the ruling class to gain benefits. This was partially the case in Anatolia, were the local Hellenic/Anatolian peoples began to shift to a more Turkic Muslim culture without being completely replaced by nomadic Turkic settlers.

Also, there were case were the monarch banned aspects of local cultures, such as language, in order to "unify" their kingdom, essentially eliminating an important part of the local cultures and imposing the culture of the capital. This was the case with the Occitans in France, for instance, were the central government in Paris banned their language and forced them to assimilate into the Francien culture of Paris, without removing the previous population and replacing them with people from Paris.
 
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How is this being upvoted? Culture conversion absolutely existed. Check Islamic Iberia, the Arabs and Berbers were a minority and the culture of Al-Andalus was still heavily arabized. Welsh culture was heavily anglicised without population replacement. North African culture was heavily arabized without population replacement.

Of course culture conversion in 80 years is bullshit, but culture conversion over a long time is real even without genocide.
Anthropologists even have a term for this, which is "ethnocide", which implies the destruction of the culture of a group of people without physically eliminating them, at which point we would be using the term "genocide" instead. It was done in an active manner by banning cultural local expressions such as language, religion, celebrations, art, etc. or simply by favouring the language, religion, culture, etc. of the ruling class or the capital city.
 
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I agree cultural conversion should be much slower (at least in the early game).
But I also think that having differing culture locations should not matter that much in the early game, with perhaps some notable exceptions.
In most cases the local populace never interacts with the higher administration, and just keeps paying taxes like they always did.

So why not 'shift the meta' increasing cultural opinion, so the culture is cheaper to accept, versus outright culture conversion?
It should need to be more attractive to accept vs convert imo.

Perhaps barring some specific examples, I feel an active culture conversion cabinet action should be locked behind an advance?
Of course passive conversion would still exist, but then be a lot slower unless you achieve major cultural dominance.
 
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