Cybernetic Creed Do and Do Not's.

[Casko]

So, since the DLC is out, and there is always some time before bugs are ironed out. and all the things are cataloged by players.

And from my trial run last night, it seems that the new Origin, Cybernetic Creed is very very heavily front loaded. Hence I was curios. what should one do with the faction management, early moves. and what creed is the best. Similarly I am wondering for what are people's general thoughts related to this origin.

Thank you for your time in advance.

 

[KarsusTheMad]

If you go Unified Creed, which is the best in my opinion, you can safely ignore all of the demands of the creeds and generally be better for it, always selecting ones that boost stability, unity, and research output. This is because when you unify them, they reform as a singular spiritualist faction. If you go to favor a particular creed (I like the Choir and Fellowship personally), just go all in on boosting their happiness and opinion. When the game starts, promote any of the factions and because all of them are the spiritualist faction, all of them will get the promoted benefit (you'll even get +100% attraction to spiritualist!).

But I'm probably not going to play Cybernetic Creed or Cybernetic at all until the bugs are fixed. The gameplay and bugs are just too painful to tolerate.

 

[-Marauder-]

Always go Unified Creed. Also right now it seems a bit bugged, pops will lose traits all the damn time.

 

[KarsusTheMad]

Always go Unified Creed. Also right now it seems a bit bugged, pops will lose traits all the damn time.

The game checks if your pop should have the Creed trait (or Limited Cybernetics) or not every time a pop changes ethics. This has some interesting effects on your growth and sometimes your planets will only have Creed pops switching in and out of the Creed so often they can't grow a pop until the colony gets more pops on it. Personally, I'd prefer this whole process of gaining and losing Creed/Limited Cyber with an Augmentor job being required to allow the swap to even happen.

 

[BlastFilms_]

The game checks if your pop should have the Creed trait (or Limited Cybernetics) or not every time a pop changes ethics. This has some interesting effects on your growth and sometimes your planets will only have Creed pops switching in and out of the Creed so often they can't grow a pop until the colony gets more pops on it. Personally, I'd prefer this whole process of gaining and losing Creed/Limited Cyber with an Augmentor job being required to allow the swap to even happen.

So THIS is why my pop growth is like, halved while playing creed. Got it.

 

[LeoBack]

there known bug currently that after finish cyborg situation pops won't grow on colonies if all the pops are spiritualist so better wait for bug fix before playing the origin

 

[KarsusTheMad]

there known bug currently that after finish cyborg situation pops won't grow on colonies if all the pops are spiritualist so better wait for bug fix before playing the origin

I'm still trying to figure out how this bug is even occurring. Cybernetic Creed is very much awesome in concept, awesome in execution, but still needs a good power washing to get the bugs out. I checked out the bug report forum and, this expansion, while awesome, is very buggy. I am hopeful the gamebreaking ones are addressed and fixed in the coming beta.

 

[Mcgan]

I'm still trying to figure out how this bug is even occurring.

Seems like species with any of the following traits are forbidden from procreating:
- "Limited Cybernetic"
- "Ritualistic Implants"
- "Augmentations of the Fellowship"
- "Augmentations of the Templars"
- "Augmentations of the Choir"
- "Augmentations of the Commune"

Not sure of the exact reason, they probably just did not have enough time to finish it properly.
I wrote a potential fix for it but have not had the time to test it yet:

Spoiler: Potential Fix

"common\game_rules\00_rules.txt"

can_species_procreate = {
    is_sapient = yes
    NOR = {
        has_trait = trait_machine_unit
        has_trait = trait_mechanical
        # has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    is_sapient = yes
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }
    NOT = { has_species_flag = nivlac_no_procreation }
    if = { # MOD
        limit = {
            OR = {
                has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
                has_cybernetic_creed_trait = yes
            }
        }
        root = {
            NOT = { # No other species to grow pops from
                any_owned_species = {
                    is_sapient = yes
                    NOR = {
                        is_robotic = yes
                        has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
                        has_cybernetic_creed_trait = yes
                        has_species_flag = nivlac_no_procreation
                    }
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                }
            }
        }
    } # MOD END
}

 

[theBigTurnip385]

Cybernetic Creed should be paradox's primary focus, these little bugs completely ruin it, which clearly demonstrates a lack of QA before release.

 

[KarsusTheMad]

Seems like species with any of the following traits are forbidden from procreating:
- "Limited Cybernetic"
- "Ritualistic Implants"
- "Augmentations of the Fellowship"
- "Augmentations of the Templars"
- "Augmentations of the Choir"
- "Augmentations of the Commune"

Not sure of the exact reason, they probably just did not have enough time to finish it properly.
I wrote a potential fix for it but have not had the time to test it yet:

Spoiler: Potential Fix

"common\game_rules\00_rules.txt"

can_species_procreate = {
    is_sapient = yes
    NOR = {
        has_trait = trait_machine_unit
        has_trait = trait_mechanical
        # has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    is_sapient = yes
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }
    NOT = { has_species_flag = nivlac_no_procreation }
    if = { # MOD
        limit = {
            OR = {
                has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
                has_cybernetic_creed_trait = yes
            }
        }
        root = {
            NOT = { # No other species to grow pops from
                any_owned_species = {
                    is_sapient = yes
                    NOR = {
                        is_robotic = yes
                        has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
                        has_cybernetic_creed_trait = yes
                        has_species_flag = nivlac_no_procreation
                    }
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                }
            }
        }
    } # MOD END
}

It seems that the problem probably stems from overcorrection. They engineered the event to clear up the problem, but never went back and allowed them to grow and allow the event firing off to solve the problem it was set up to solve.

 

[redvictorx4]

So sad it's bugged, i like this origin but without popgrowth its unplayable

 

[-Marauder-]

You do still have pop growth, it just really hurts you at certain points. It's mostly the regular pops that grow. A bigger problem to me is pops LOSING their cyborg traits. When they switch ethics from Spiritualist to your other ethic they drop the ritualistic cybernetics, but they also lose ALL cyborg traits before then having regular cyborg applied.

This loss is in perpetuity, and you have to remod them constantly. At the top you can see the original species. Below it the regular non spiritualist pops who lost the ritualistic implant and along with it ALL cyborg traits. Below those are the ones who switched back to spiritualist but didn't regain those traits.

If this goes on long enough, eventually every pop would lose cybernetic traits unless regularly reapplied. Which is a problem because traits like Plasmid can't be applied, so you'd constantly purge it.

 

[Casko]

You do still have pop growth, it just really hurts you at certain points. It's mostly the regular pops that grow. A bigger problem to me is pops LOSING their cyborg traits. When they switch ethics from Spiritualist to your other ethic they drop the ritualistic cybernetics, but they also lose ALL cyborg traits before then having regular cyborg applied.

SO THATS WHY I why I was constantly having pops without cybernetic trait. and weird pop interactions..

...how did this get through testing phase? (don't answer I already know the answer is no testing was done)

 

[TheFunMachine]

Didn't realise there was some nasty bug for this origin, but I also haven't played for a while.

Any advice on how to deal with the hit to energy when you transition to cybernetic early on? I've tried a run a few times and always get stuck after I complete the cybernetic tree and the energy economy goes into a spiralling hole where I can't seem to turn it around. I've had fairly large fleets and get a pretty big alloy and consumer good surplus because I go the hammer church.

I've had to go fairly aggro with fleets because of neighbours both times. The last run I got stuck near a criminal megacorp which did not help the economy part.

 

[workbot]

Didn't realise there was some nasty bug for this origin, but I also haven't played for a while.

Any advice on how to deal with the hit to energy when you transition to cybernetic early on? I've tried a run a few times and always get stuck after I complete the cybernetic tree and the energy economy goes into a spiralling hole where I can't seem to turn it around. I've had fairly large fleets and get a pretty big alloy and consumer good surplus because I go the hammer church.

I've had to go fairly aggro with fleets because of neighbours both times. The last run I got stuck near a criminal megacorp which did not help the economy part.

If your economy gets hit that hard, you can always take the L and dismantle your fleets, ask someone to subjugate you, then mooch off them.

Or just make sure you take a moment to build a large surplus before taking the tradition tree.

I didn't have an energy issue playing this origin, but I went hard into a trade build and made commercial pacts. Gospel of the masses + dimensional enterprise gives you super priests that provide amenities, unity, trade, engineering, and physics research. With consumer benefits, you only really need to focus on spamming forges and temples, with some other jobs for support.

If you take augmentation bazaars instead of gospel, your engineering research blasts ahead so fast that you can out tech your enemies' fleets by a huge margin.

The downside is the huge hit to society research, which makes gene modding basically impossible, but gene modding sucks with this origin anyway, so meh.

 

[Casko]

Any advice on how to deal with the hit to energy when you transition to cybernetic early on? I've tried a run a few times and always get stuck after I complete the cybernetic tree and the energy economy goes into a spiralling hole where I can't seem to turn it around. I've had fairly large fleets and get a pretty big alloy and consumer good surplus because I go the hammer church.

picking Trade or having a decent energy planet should do it. just make sure to invest a bit more in energy income before clicking the cybernetic button.
alternatively sell alloys as short term fix in the market.

 

[Cronki]

It seems that the problem probably stems from overcorrection. They engineered the event to clear up the problem, but never went back and allowed them to grow and allow the event firing off to solve the problem it was set up to solve.

The problem remains in the Stellaris 4.0 Patch, where even after ascension & all events concluding - I can only get increased pop growth from the 'Non-Spiritualist' members of the species (i.e. the ones without Ritualistic Implants - though haven't tried it with the 4 augments).

I honestly wonder if the idea HAD to have been to not go Fanatic Spiritualist & separate out your pops to Xenophobe, Authoritarian, Spirtualist or something just for basic/general pop-growth.