Damnatio Memoriae

[Khanconette]

Hello!

I'd like to suggest a simple cosmetic feature for the upcoming CK3 which, in my opinion, was desperately needed for CK2.

The idea is to implement the ability to 'clean' the title history in order to get rid of either ahistorical generated rulers or rulers which are in conflict with your vision of history. For example, houses of Karađorđević and Obrenović in Serbia both had rulers named Alexander but they hated each other so they didn't 'count' them in using regnal numbers.

So I think this ability (to 'clean' the entire title history or to delete certain rulers from it and therefore from the regnal numbers system) must be in the game. It can be designed as a lore feature in tradition of 'damnatio memoriae' and could cost some prestige for the player. Also there could be an ability to restore the 'original' title history or to just look at it, not affecting the 'game' title history.

So what do you think of this suggestion? I think it's a simple and casual thing which would improve the RPG-style gameplay greatly! Thanks in advance for reading that!

 

[Andrzej I]

The above would also provide a means by which the Kingdom of England could have correct regnal numbers, too, with Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor not being counted when Edward I Longshanks came to power. Certainly beats the workaround that was implemented, if I recall right, where the Anglo-Saxon Edwards were given an Anglo-Saxon spelling that was not linked to the more modern spelling.

Edit: Also, would be great to have this feature for when you, as a ruler, create a title and give it to a vassal, not intending to hold it for yourself (and thus not be in the ruler list for said title!).

 

[Khanconette]

Agree totally! Also it would be great to allow using regnal numbers from previous titles when you get a higher title (for example, keep the numbers from your duchy when you become a king or from your kingdom when you become an emperor). It was done historically for, for example, Germany or Spain. But I understand that it's harder to implement than the feature from the OP.

 

[Denkt]

Should it not purge the character completely, damnatio memoriae is basically to purge the person from history completely.

 

[Andrzej I]

Should it not purge the character completely, damnatio memoriae is basically to purge the person from history completely.

Yes, which is why @Khanconette added towards the end of the post:

Also there could be an ability to restore the 'original' title history or to just look at it, not affecting the 'game' title history.

To me, at least, it seems the idea here is not exactly damnatio memoriae, but the name suits what appears to be the desired mechanic (omitting rulers from being counted for regnal numbering) well enough.

 

[2333Vladimir]

For example, houses of Karađorđević and Obrenović in Serbia both had rulers named Alexander but they hated each other so they didn't 'count' them in using regnal numbers.

Seems so good.

 

[Chlodio]

The above would also provide a means by which the Kingdom of England could have correct regnal numbers, too, with Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor not being counted when Edward I Longshanks came to power. Certainly beats the workaround that was implemented, if I recall right, where the Anglo-Saxon Edwards were given an Anglo-Saxon spelling that was not linked to the more modern spelling.

That still wouldn't prevent Edward the Confessor being called Edward II. Another solution would be"uses_regnal_numbers"-flag, which actives after reaching a certain tech level. When it actives it begins to count regnal numbers, but doesn't count former titles in retrospect. When the flag hasn't been activated instead of a regnal number, it gives the ruler a random nickname. Naturally, the Mediterranean tech would be so advanced that they start-off with regnal numbers activated.

 

[Andrzej I]

That still wouldn't prevent Edward the Confessor being called Edward II. Another solution would be"uses_regnal_numbers"-flag, which actives after reaching a certain tech level. When it actives it begins to count regnal numbers, but doesn't count former titles in retrospect. When the flag hasn't been activated instead of a regnal number, it gives the ruler a random nickname. Naturally, the Mediterranean tech would be so advanced that they start-off with regnal numbers activated.

Why wouldn't we want Edward the Confessor to be Edward II? He was, after all, technically Edward II. What we don't want is Edward Longshanks to be Edward III or Edward IV (depending if we count Edward the Elder or not!). That said, the idea of being able to use or not use regnal numbers isn't a bad idea, too, as regnal numbers were more of a later-era development.

 

[Chlodio]

Why wouldn't we want Edward the Confessor to be Edward II? He was, after all, technically Edward II. What we don't want is Edward Longshanks to be Edward III or Edward IV (depending if we count Edward the Elder or not!). That said, the idea of being able to use or not use regnal numbers isn't a bad idea, too, as regnal numbers were more of a later-era development.

Because he was never described as Edward II, as Anglo-Saxons didn't use regnal numbering.

 

[Arcvalons]

Rather than characters being removed entirely, they could be tagged as "usurpers" in the history, which would prevent them frm being counted

 

[Khanconette]

Rather than characters being removed entirely, they could be tagged as "usurpers" in the history, which would prevent them frm being counted

Yes, I think that would be better. I guess, historical 'damnatio memoriae' never actually managed to erase the memory about the subject completely, it was simply impossible, and it would look strange in the game, ruining, for example, family trees. They got erased from the title history, but not from the game, this way.

 

[treb]

Rather than characters being removed entirely, they could be tagged as "usurpers" in the history, which would prevent them frm being counted

the concept isn't to remove them but a soft reset of regnal numbers.

Constantine CXXVI decides that the regnal numbers of the Roman empire are getting out of hand when he realized his son will be the 223rd emperor with the name Justinian so with the empires final reconquest of the Levant from the dread mongols of the orient he decides that its time to draw a line in the sand, this is the new better and bestest Rome ever and that he is the first emperor of this new Rome so he his not Constantine CXXVI he is Constantine emperor of Rome.

 

[guinea prince]

Because he was never described as Edward II, as Anglo-Saxons didn't use regnal numbering.

That's a matter for future historians, not contemporary peers.

 

[Human666]

I guess, historical 'damnatio memoriae' never actually managed to erase the memory about the subject completely

We can't, by definition, know about any successes.