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First Lieutenant
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Jan 11, 2008
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So, here I am to start the thread on Danzig. I had written a nice, complex event chain in which Danzig is added to the inheritors of Gotland, but due to the revelation of Vitalia, I've had to scrap it, and so am back to the initial three events (of which only one matters, and the other two are to give the player some insight into what they've gotten themselves into). It is currently being written in Interregnum 1 language.

Code:
event = {
	id = 700000
	random = no
	country = DEL
	name = "First Stadtrat in Your Hands"
	desc = "It is time for the first player-determined election of the Stadtrat. This is meant to simulate public opinion (entirely in your favour, no less), by electing high ranking officials into the Stadtrat to steer the country's course. For simplicity's sake, the elections will assume that the elected official will retain a seat and influence until death, or for several elections. Also, a republic model is used as Danzig will hopefully become much larger, which makes direct democracy impractical. For your first election, the two officials likely to make it into the Stadtrat are Admiral Giese, who seeks to challenge the Kalmar Union for naval superiority in the Baltic, and a descendent of the Venetian Doges named Castaldi, who has made himself a man about town despite his foreign nature and wishes to create trade prosperity in Danzig, as well as manipulating the surrounding land powers for Danzig's own purposes."

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }

	action_a = { 
		name = "Admiral Giese! May the Kalmar Union tremble!"
		command = { type = setflag which = Giese }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 40001 } #Stadtrat mit Giese
		command = { type = gainbuilding   which = 301 value = shipyard } #Note, this will be destroyed in the event that will trigger the next election cycle in the Giese line, titled "Shipwreck!"
		command = { type = naval   value = 300 } #A naval expert will naturally gear the country towards the navy.
		command = { type = domestic   which = land   value = -2 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 700001 }
	}	
	action_b = {
		name = "Castaldi! May this foreigner prove his worth."
		command = { type = setflag which = Castaldi }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 40002 } #Stadtrat mit Castaldi
		command = { type = trade   value = 300 } #Some trade bonuses to lure in the discerning player
		command = { type = merchants   value = 4 }
		command = { type = domestic   which = mercantilism   value = 1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 700002 }
	}
}

That event sets up two event paths, one of which turns Danzig into a naval fighting power in the Baltic, the other leads to Danzig becoming a trading state, directly opposed to Genoa, and coincidentally competing with the Hansa.

Also, as an aside to introduce these two events, all of the 'monarchs' of Danzig are statesmen who rose to great prominence in the Stadtrat, hence all monarch names are 'Stadtrat mit $name', and all 'monarchs' will be, consequently, noteworthy people, few of them will be poorly or avaricious, as they would be quickly excised from the Stadtrat. This is not to say that there won't be periods of decline in Danzig, there will be.

Code:
event = { 
	id = 700001
	random = no
	country = DEL
	name = "Giese"
	desc = "Footnote'd until it can be included the eventhist section."

	action_a = {
		name = "Hail Giese!" #This event is not for any sort of changes, it is to inform the player about Giese. There will be one of these for each 'monarch'.
	}
}

# The description: "Giese was an admiral coming from a very strong political family in Danzig. During his youth, he had witnessed the cruelties being allowed around the Baltic, especially those belonging to the Kalmar Union, and swore to fight them himself, someday, somehow. He rose through the ranks of the Admiralty to get at his goal. It quickly became apparent that Giese had a power over other people. Even when at a serious disadvantage he could make people do what he wanted. From a historical perspective, it is also noticed that Giese's 'peculiar habits' were, in fact, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Unlike most sufferers at the time who were simply shunned however, Giese would turn his disorder into an advantage. His skills at inspiring, ordering, and organizing would lead him to become one of the most effective military leaders of the age, and to be innovative and cutting edge in naval technology well after his time had passed. He would serve the country of Danzig until his death. He would be interred with honor and remembered as a great war hero. Unfortunately, he would not live nearly long enough to be fully tried or to see Danzig become great. What this means to the player, is that you have chosen to challenge the other naval powers in the region for supremacy despite your lowly stature, and Giese will put you on the path towards that."


event = {
	id = 700002
	random = no
	country = DEL
	name = "Castaldi"
	desc = "Footnote'd until it can be included in the eventhist section."

	action_a = {
		name = "Hail Castaldi!" #This event makes no changes, and is purely informative.
	}
}

#The description: "Castaldi was a descendant of the Venexian doges, who had prospered after leaving their homeland behind. He had made himself a man about town in Danzig, and earnt the respect of the locals through his charisma and savvy. He had ambitions of making the Danzigers competitive in trade and diplomacy. His heritage as a Venexian certainly made him qualified for the job, and he would spend much of his time in office scheming to get ahold of lucractive territories and trading routes for Danzig. He had a peculiar need of avarice however, and the full strength of his reforms would not come to its zenith until after his demise. Unfortunately, despite his considerably peaceful and agreeable nature, Castaldi had very many enemies, and that fact would change the outlook of the tiny city towards its neighbours until far into the distant future, due to the circumstances surrounding the end of his reign. The player can look forward to assistance from Castaldi in finding the best places to go and the best sides to pick, but also to being disadvantaged when it comes to direct warfare."

The plan is this. Giese will set you on the line to fighting Kalmar Union and conquest in the simpler terms, he is, in essence, the one the AI actually stands a chance at playing. Castaldi (notice his event was much more vague as there are several outcomes to his 'reign', whereas Giese only has two ends) is a much more complicated event path that eventually leads to Trade War, and requires much more deft handling than the AI could hope to give. However, as there is always a chance, I don't think we should completely remove the option for the AI to play it.

Some foresight for these two paths:

Giese will attempt to work with the Vitalians against the other groups, unless the Teutonic Order, who have a hand in this and are vastly intimidating to the Danzigers, decide to oppose Vitalia, in which case Giese would choose prudence and look for allies other than the Pirates.

Castaldi will start by attempting to lay historical claims (Danzig used to be the capital of a Pomeranian kingdom, and so he can try to lay his claim on the land), and move on to trade reform and challenging the Hansa monopoly. The circumstances of his death will determine the the eventual path of Danzig, be it a Trade War axis of the Baltic and North Sea versus the Mediterranean and Black Sea, or a hefty interest in Colonialism, to establish riches abroad.

Questions, Comments, Ideas?
 
In planning the early years of the Danzigers, I'd like you to consider the following relationships and how the Danziger's might respond to the following crises/challenges.


The Hansa: Likely the Hansa don't view them well, as they represent an alternative 'free city' state set up by the Emperor in the baltic, and a challenge to their own trading power, at least potentially. Plus, they may have a core on the westernmost province Danzig owns at game start.

Halych-Volhynia: Another caught-in-the-middle state. While not a neighbour, they share common threats (Hungary, Poland, the TO) and there may be room for close relations.

Poland: Does Poland have a claim on Danzig in this period? Or, as with Halych-Volhynia, do they share small-guy commonalities?

Brandenburg: ?

Bohemia and the Hussites: Danzig may be able to remain neutral during this conflict (it probably wants to stay neutral in most conflicts!) but perhaps one of the possible story threads is that it can come to support a successful Hussite Bohemia part way through the war. Also, if the Emperor decides to back the Hussites and break with the Pope (see the German Culture thread), will Danzig remain a Papal supporter, or will Danzig stick with the Emperor?

Speaking of which, Danzig will need to begin the game as a vassal of Luxemburg, the house which created it at the time, or should it's allegiance have shifted to the Wittelsbachs (Bavaria)?
 
MattyG said:
In planning the early years of the Danzigers, I'd like you to consider the following relationships and how the Danziger's might respond to the following crises/challenges.

Sounds good.

MattyG said:
The Hansa: Likely the Hansa don't view them well, as they represent an alternative 'free city' state set up by the Emperor in the baltic, and a challenge to their own trading power, at least potentially. Plus, they may have a core on the westernmost province Danzig owns at game start.

Absolutely not, the Hanseatic League and the Danzigers are direct competitors, especially in the Castaldi line, as Danziger's ultimate goal in that line is to supplant the Hansa and challenge Genoa's monopoly.

MattyG said:
Halych-Volhynia: Another caught-in-the-middle state. While not a neighbour, they share common threats (Hungary, Poland, the TO) and there may be room for close relations.

I very much like the sound of this. Halych-Volhynia would have the same spirit as Danzig, and they would frequently cooperate to get what they want.

MattyG said:
Poland: Does Poland have a claim on Danzig in this period? Or, as with Halych-Volhynia, do they share small-guy commonalities?

Poland does not have a claim on Danzig during this period, at least as far as I can tell from the Interregnum envisioning of history. Poland only really has a claim on Danzig as long as it remains the Royal Polish City of Gdansk.

MattyG said:
Brandenburg: ?

Danzig used to be the royal/capital city of a Pomeranian Kingdom (farther back than Interregnum seems to change things), and as such, if Brandenburg maintains its hold on the Hinterpommern, Danzig would have claim to Brandenburg lands. I plan for Danzig to only really press this claim in the Castaldi line, as Giese would not be interested in Pommern as much as Vitalia and Kalmar, but Giese can still press the claim under specific conditions.

MattyG said:
Bohemia and the Hussites: Danzig may be able to remain neutral during this conflict (it probably wants to stay neutral in most conflicts!) but perhaps one of the possible story threads is that it can come to support a successful Hussite Bohemia part way through the war. Also, if the Emperor decides to back the Hussites and break with the Pope (see the German Culture thread), will Danzig remain a Papal supporter, or will Danzig stick with the Emperor?

Danzig, as a free city state, would have a resentment of outside control, and so the Pope would not be as strongly supported in Danzig as in other lands, and indeed, Danzig is in the north, which is historically a big place for non-catholic ideas.

I like the idea of it backing the Hussites should they win/be winning (incidentally, I really think we need to improve the Hussite odds, the only time I've seen them last any length of time is when I was Halych-Volhynia). Indeed, any sort of church movement reducing papal authority would have the support of the Danzigers. Hence Danzig will always have its backing priorities as: Winner>Protestant/Reformed>Emperor>Pope

MattyG said:
Speaking of which, Danzig will need to begin the game as a vassal of Luxemburg, the house which created it at the time, or should it's allegiance have shifted to the Wittelsbachs (Bavaria)?

The House of Luxembourg is subordinate to Bavaria at game start, yes? So the Danzigers could have worked their way up the chain to Bavaria and Luxembourg wouldn't have been able to say much of anything, for fear of reprisal from Bavaria. So, I don't see any particular reason for them to remain in Luxembourg's employ.

If they're not subordinate to Bavaria, Danzig could either still be Luxembourg's vassal, or Bavaria's lackey with bad blood with the House of Luxembourg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't really get to work on the events until I have access to the Interregnum 2 code and such, though. It helps to be able to see what one is doing.
 
I decided to create a separate post, as it was not a reply, and contains some of the big Danziger ideas (as well as some ideas about the other states).

Directly from an e-mail conversation:

I have two events planned, though, both are caused by having attained some reasonable measure of progress as Danzig, the former is "Obsolescence of the Stadtrat", the latter is "Throwing Off The Shackles"

The former concerns the fact that the town council was a largely simplistic affair that had considerable trouble with administering an area of distinct size or diverse needs. Ergo, what is Danzig going to do? Will they recreate the Duchy of Pomerelia (strongly resisted by the populace, and will lead to a great deal of civil warfare, but can end up with arguably the best Danziger land empire)? Will they establish a parliamentary system (similar to the Bretons, they will have the choice of central parliament, exclusive parliament, and tiered (ie: local and central parliament), but cannot choose decentralized parliaments, as that means that they are no longer a state)? Will they chose a republic? (note, after MattyG's consideration, I think the tiered parliament, in particular, would lead to "Danziger" culture becoming distinct, as every province is ruled by itself, and so is collected from their own culture, which is best simulated as provinces Danzig controls becoming Danziger in culture, regardless of their religious affiliation)

The latter concerns that Danzig would have been a very timid state at first, to keep themselves from being swallowed whole, but wouldn't a Danzig that has grown large and stable cease to fear the other empires? So, this is, essentially, a major insult to all neighbouring powers, as Danzig feels it can now pursue its own agenda with some measure impunity. The idea is that this flag will lead to alternative versions of events that, amongst other things, put some bolder options as the default for the AI's choice, less difficulty for the player when it comes to not backing down, and indeed actually allowing the player to decide not to back down in some cases (if Throwing Off The Shackles hasn't occurred, the Stadtrat would be quite simply too scared to pursue some courses, and the player will have to drag them along kicking and screaming in a number of places regardless).

-----------------------------------------

Some other ideas, include:

The basic outline of the Castaldi lineage, is this:

Castaldi comes to power, and starts gearing the Danzigers towards trade, and working his diplomatic muscles to get his way. He doesn't manage to accomplish much, before an enraged Genoa assassinates Castaldi, because they are loathe to see a Venexian in power *anywhere*. This traumatises the fledgling statelet for a long time to come. Their *hero* was *assassinated* in cold blood. They want revenge, and believe him to be a greater man than he was. So, naturally, his death gears the entire populace to a heraclean effort to 1) Achieve Castaldi's ideal 2) Crush Genoa. To accomplish 1 they will, naturally, have to take on and supplant the Hansa, to accomplish 2 they will make use of any means at their disposal, and so Danzig will have access to a good number of dirty deeds, and their efforts will probably provoke a great deal of trouble in Veneto for Genoa. Eventually, Danzig will ally with the other nothern trade states (Wessex (only Albion Major state that would actually trade), Eire, Brittany, in particular) to crush Genoa, who will probably be allied with Sicily and Europe proper, creating the North Sea Axis and the Mediterranean Axis. Byzantium would, naturally, seek to profit either way. I suspect they would be very unlikely to work with Danzig, but if they are Palaiologoi they wouldn't be opposed to working with Genoa. If Kommenos or whoever is the non-Krete family is in charge, they'd probably seek to angle the two against each other in such a way that Byzantium can sweep up the remains for themselves. It kind of makes Byzantium the deciding factor in the conflict.

Giese is still a bit undefined, but he would primarily be interested in allying the Hansa, Finland, or Vitalia, against Kalmar.

Questions/Comments/Criticisms?
 
I find it a stretch of epic proportions that the assassination of Giese (or anyone) would lead the people of Danzig to crush Genoa, which is so far away.

A period of anti-genoan sentiment, sure. Trade embargoe, burning their ships, a counter assassination, mother's telling their children that "the Genoans will get you" to make them eat their spinach. More seems, I'm sorry, preposterous.

Danzig starts the game with essentially one great city and some territory, surrounded by powerful states and outgunned in the trade and fleet area by the Hansa and the Pirates. Let's stay locally concerned.

Sorry if this seems harsh. :eek: There are lots of good ideas here. :)

I think the biggest issue is just to resolve the first 30 years and the critical issues which confront this small-but-determined state:

1. The Pirates

2. With whom do we ally to best grow (Hansa, TO, Kalmar, Pirates)

3. How our free state system will deal with expansion, politically.

This last one is huge, to me. Will it be like Rome, and keep citizenship just to Romans (well, until hundreds of years later) and govern through military might? Or will it begin extensing its limited democracy to each new city it absorbs? Or will it transform itself into a monarchical sytem and build an empire?
 
I don't think of it as Danzig actually crushing Genoa (tis Castaldi, not Giese, by the way), they wouldn't succeed in such an endeavour without considerable luck, but the Danzigers would make powerful, impassioned speeches, motivate their entire population to anti-Genovese sentiment, leading to a reckoning of some portion in the distant future. It's a more concentrated form of the Napoleonic backwards viewing. Despite his being dead for some time, they still looked to him as a hero. Same with, sometimes, King Arthur in England. Castaldi would be a constant motivation for the Danzigers, and lead them to do things states wouldn't typically do. Whether this could topple the invincible Genovese remains to be seen. I frankly see the outcome of this struggle heavily tilted in Genovese favour, but not impossible. I would actually intend for Danzig to more-than-likely lose.

The thing to realise about Danzig at game start, is that they're hated by, well, everyone. It leads to a fairly insular existence, where all they have keeping them going is their heroes, the slaying of a hero would lead to a veritable cult. That's what would cause a bit more than anti-Genovese sentiment. Perhaps that's my heritage talking. Some 500 years after the Mongolians failed to capture Nippon we were still talking about the Kamikaze. That's divine wind, the storm that sank the Mongol fleet. But then, my culture's insular, and Danzig is forcedly insular. . .

And absolutely, for a long time Danzig would only be able to make local concerns, but they would take their story with them, Danziger merchants would sit back with the middle class of other trading nations, telling about the treachery of the Genovese, and the other merchant classes would naturally already be suspicious of the state built on the merchant class, and that would trickle up and down the populace, as the merchant classes are the movers and the shakers. So, they would certainly spread anti-Genovese sentiment abroad, where-ever they could make port. So, Genoa's diplomatic picture would look something like:
North and East: Hatred
Center: Ambivalence
Isles: Distaste
Home and the Mediterranean: Staunch allies
I suppose the thing is, Danzig would never forget. Certainly, they'd move on to other works, but in the back of their minds, every decision will have another binary criteria: "Will this help us put an end to the Genovese?"

As for what Danzig does about home, it again depends a lot on whether Giese or Castaldi is the first-thirty man.

The pirates: Castaldi would find these people distasteful, and would be strongly against allying with them. Giese would admire their naval strength and try to work with them. Of course, neither would be so stupid as to make their move without gaugeing how the other Baltic states are feeling.

With whom do they ally:
Hansa: Again, Giese versus Castaldi. Giese would appreciate their monetary strength, and probably try to leech off of them for naval supplies, and Castaldi would be opposed to them on principal, no matter how civil he may seem.

Teutonic Order: Probably the safest ally for Danzig, as they're connected and the Teutons are ridiculously large here. I don't know as either would be opposed to the Teutons, but certainly they're not fans of their fanaticism (though, Danzig might find profit in acting as the merchants of the Teutons, and try to suck the Teuton's economic might out from under them)

Kalmar Union: Not a chance. Giese actively despises them, and the Sund Due would end any happy feelings between Danzig and the Kalmar Union.

Pirates: As I mentioned above, Giese wouldn't be opposed to their methodology, and if the Teutons didn't concern themselves with the pirates, he would probably move to work with them, and use them as an allied fleet (much as the Barbary Pirates and the Watergeuzen have come to the help of Al-Djazair & Tunis and Nederlands respectively). Castaldi would probably end up leading the anti-Pirate movement, as Pirates are the sworn enemy of every Merchant.

The Stadtrat probably won't be under threat in the first thirty years, unless you make a blitz of expansion. The Stadtrat, I think, will probably become unwieldy around 10-14 provinces? Then they'd have to make their decisions. I personally think that Danzig should have its options open. This would be a big time for them, but I think that the Duchy of Pomerelia would only really have a chance to re-emerge under Giese or the naval heroes, as I envision him as a practical autocrat, who gets his way be people *agreeing* with him, rather as a military force. Similarly, I think such a semi-centralized state as a tiered parliamentary system could only be properly thought up under one of the mercantile heroes. I think we'd need to come up with a definite list of possible structures for Danzig to operate under, and the advantages and disadvantages. . . I think that this event system is about to get so complicated we'll need to construct a map. . .

I think it isn't fair to limit such detail to Danzig. So, I won't limit myself to just them, but one thing at a time.
 
Time Consumer said:
The thing to realise about Danzig at game start, is that they're hated by, well, everyone. It leads to a fairly insular existence, where all they have keeping them going is their heroes, the slaying of a hero would lead to a veritable cult. That's what would cause a bit more than anti-Genovese sentiment. Perhaps that's my heritage talking. Some 500 years after the Mongolians failed to capture Nippon we were still talking about the Kamikaze. That's divine wind, the storm that sank the Mongol fleet. But then, my culture's insular, and Danzig is forcedly insular. . .

OK, I can buy into this. It has a strong theme that makes for great country-role-playing. Why is it that everyone hates the Danzigers?

And absolutely, for a long time Danzig would only be able to make local concerns, but they would take their story with them, Danziger merchants would sit back with the middle class of other trading nations, telling about the treachery of the Genovese, and the other merchant classes would naturally already be suspicious of the state built on the merchant class, and that would trickle up and down the populace, as the merchant classes are the movers and the shakers. So, they would certainly spread anti-Genovese sentiment abroad, where-ever they could make port. So, Genoa's diplomatic picture would look something like:
North and East: Hatred
Center: Ambivalence
Isles: Distaste
Home and the Mediterranean: Staunch allies
I suppose the thing is, Danzig would never forget. Certainly, they'd move on to other works, but in the back of their minds, every decision will have another binary criteria: "Will this help us put an end to the Genovese?"

It needs to be laid aside at some point. Do the Japanese still hate the Mongols? That your culture reveres its saviour (kamikaze) does not mean that they despise what it saved them from (mongols), although I know the broader inference is 'foreign oppression'. And I think that is what the Danzigers ought to be focused on: their culture develops a power ethic of independence, say. These kinds of things, more than language, can be the basis for a distinct culture status, as with the Swiss in vanilla.

The pirates: Castaldi would find these people distasteful, and would be strongly against allying with them. Giese would admire their naval strength and try to work with them. Of course, neither would be so stupid as to make their move without gaugeing how the other Baltic states are feeling.

Yes, but our enemy's enemy is our friend.

With whom do they ally:
Hansa: Again, Giese versus Castaldi. Giese would appreciate their monetary strength, and probably try to leech off of them for naval supplies, and Castaldi would be opposed to them on principal, no matter how civil he may seem.

OK

Teutonic Order: Probably the safest ally for Danzig, as they're connected and the Teutons are ridiculously large here. I don't know as either would be opposed to the Teutons, but certainly they're not fans of their fanaticism (though, Danzig might find profit in acting as the merchants of the Teutons, and try to suck the Teuton's economic might out from under them)

Definitely at game start. TO very very big and kind of hungry to have Danzig back in its rightful place.

Kalmar Union: Not a chance. Giese actively despises them, and the Sund Due would end any happy feelings between Danzig and the Kalmar Union.

Accordingly, shouldn't both Giese and Castaldi want to support the Hansa, because of the Sund Due crisis, as Hansa are the lead in that affair?

Pirates: As I mentioned above, Giese wouldn't be opposed to their methodology, and if the Teutons didn't concern themselves with the pirates, he would probably move to work with them, and use them as an allied fleet (much as the Barbary Pirates and the Watergeuzen have come to the help of Al-Djazair & Tunis and Nederlands respectively). Castaldi would probably end up leading the anti-Pirate movement, as Pirates are the sworn enemy of every Merchant.

Yes, but all politicians are practical people. The Pirates are also anti-Kalmar and their official front is a support for the traditional Swedeish monarchy and Sweden's independence. And Pirate gold is as good as anyones. And if the pirates can be convinced to attack only your opponents' shipping ...

The Stadtrat probably won't be under threat in the first thirty years, unless you make a blitz of expansion. The Stadtrat, I think, will probably become unwieldy around 10-14 provinces?

It's going to be more of an issue for players, not the ai. Expect the ai to survive at best with such a tricky country. But a player will take it to 10 provinces in 50 years. And it's really for players that we need to get the flavour and the function working smoothly.

Then they'd have to make their decisions. I personally think that Danzig should have its options open. This would be a big time for them, but I think that the Duchy of Pomerelia would only really have a chance to re-emerge under Giese or the naval heroes, as I envision him as a practical autocrat, who gets his way be people *agreeing* with him, rather as a military force. Similarly, I think such a semi-centralized state as a tiered parliamentary system could only be properly thought up under one of the mercantile heroes. I think we'd need to come up with a definite list of possible structures for Danzig to operate under, and the advantages and disadvantages. . . I think that this event system is about to get so complicated we'll need to construct a map. . .

It's always useful to have convergence points. Think of one or two areas in their history where you can force-conflate things, such that there's almost a reset button on the various threads. The Reformation is the most obvious one, but you could have a timed political crisis as well, in which another powerful figure emerges, a la Michael Doukas in the Byzantium file.
 
I apologize for not replying for so long.

I'll forego the quoting, and reply paragraph by paragraph.

You explained yourself why the Danzigers are hated by everyone. Everyone has claims on them, everyone wants their land, and the emperor gave it to nobody but the Danzigers themselves.

No, Nihon does not hate the Mongols. Just Kublai Khan. Actually, that's still a bit of a joke. He is portrayed somewhat unfairly in our history texts regardless. I do like your idea, and certainly it provides an excellent stage for the development of Danzig as a distinct culture from the rest of the world. I do think that Danzig will never lose their animosity towards the Genovese, though it may cool with time. Perhaps not so vicious a fight as before, but still an unfriendly rivalry.

I suppose the big thing for deciding if Castaldi will work with the Pirates is something based on historical approaches: How did the Venexians feel about pirates? Castaldi is a Venexian, despite his new land, and he would react to them as a Venexian would.

Nothing to be said.

I have my suspicions that the Teutons are not economically savvy (being a crusading order), and so Danzig could end up endebting and bankrupting the Teutons, and seizing territory in lieu of payment. The backrupt Teutons would then have to decide to either accept it or try to fight an economic powerhouse (having sucked the marrow from the Teuton economy). Mind, if the Teutons do prove savvy they can escape this.

You make a good point here, and I do believe Castaldi would stand with the Hansa for the Duration, as Giese would, if largely due to the common bond of trade and oppression. However, Castaldi would be considerably less grateful for it, I think.

You make a good point here, but how could Danzig make such a deal with the pirates? Acting as safe haven, providing German/Polish/Halician-Volyhnian trade boons? And what would be the in-game tangible benefits? Early restoration of the reduced production, perhaps even some gains?

I do intend for the government change to be inevitable. A player can arrive at it ahead of time due to expansion destabilising and rendering ineffective the Stadtrat, whereas the wear and tear of having so much territory (even one or two provinces is a lot for a town council to run) will force the Stadtrat to change *eventually.*

I agree, there should be linearising effects, though I am not a fan of them (ripple of time, all of that). The reformation is probably a big one, setting everything on a new course, especially if we set up the reformation events as not enabling the keeping of the old regimes of politicians, with new political families and such arising based on your manipulation of the religious preference of Danzig. As a point of interest, I don't think it should be possible for Danzig to remain Catholic. They would loathe the influence of the Pope, both historically and Interregnum (meddling, tithes, foreign rule, etc.). As for the political crises, I'm not sure what to do about those. Simulating civil war is a hell, as I've seen. So, probably a more tumultuous thing, rather than a full-blown war. And, what exactly should happen? Would there be a temporary reign of a dictator (I strongly doubt it, as pointed out above, the culture of the Danzigers would find this anathema, and his reign simply could not be of any significant length.

Again, I apologise for the delay.
 
You explained yourself why the Danzigers are hated by everyone. Everyone has claims on them, everyone wants their land, and the emperor gave it to nobody but the Danzigers themselves.

Yes, and a clever ploy on his part, too.

I suppose the big thing for deciding if Castaldi will work with the Pirates is something based on historical approaches: How did the Venexians feel about pirates? Castaldi is a Venexian, despite his new land, and he would react to them as a Venexian would.

I suspect they openly oppose them, denounce them at every turn, and yet secretly are extremely please they are there, attacking the shipping of their rivals, the Hansa.

I have my suspicions that the Teutons are not economically savvy (being a crusading order), and so Danzig could end up endebting and bankrupting the Teutons, and seizing territory in lieu of payment. The backrupt Teutons would then have to decide to either accept it or try to fight an economic powerhouse (having sucked the marrow from the Teuton economy). Mind, if the Teutons do prove savvy they can escape this.

Perfect. Their independence almost guarenteed by being generous bankers to the Order. But not too generous, as the Jews of York know too well. Eventually the debt becomes so burdensome that killing the banker makes more sense than paying the debt.

You make a good point here, but how could Danzig make such a deal with the pirates? Acting as safe haven, providing German/Polish/Halician-Volyhnian trade boons? And what would be the in-game tangible benefits? Early restoration of the reduced production, perhaps even some gains?

Remember that the pirates have a respectable side. Officially they are Gotland, fronted by claimants to the Swedish throne and maintaining a posture of moral authority. The reality is somewhat different, but anyone claiming to back Swedish independence could support them without appearing to support 'piracy' per se.


I agree, there should be linearising effects, though I am not a fan of them (ripple of time, all of that).

Agreed, but it becomes a necessary evil for things to be manageable.

The reformation is probably a big one, setting everything on a new course, especially if we set up the reformation events as not enabling the keeping of the old regimes of politicians, with new political families and such arising based on your manipulation of the religious preference of Danzig. As a point of interest, I don't think it should be possible for Danzig to remain Catholic. They would loathe the influence of the Pope, both historically and Interregnum (meddling, tithes, foreign rule, etc.)

Yes, but ... the ai ought to have a chance to stay Catholic. Action 'd' where actions a, b and c are all Protestant, just to simulate variation. This is almost on principal. We can't predict all the characters and storylines.

As for the political crises, I'm not sure what to do about those. Simulating civil war is a hell, as I've seen. So, probably a more tumultuous thing, rather than a full-blown war. And, what exactly should happen? Would there be a temporary reign of a dictator (I strongly doubt it, as pointed out above, the culture of the Danzigers would find this anathema, and his reign simply could not be of any significant length.

But the individual would make their mark on the long-term politcal landscape in some way.
 
Not much to say to this paragraph.

Sounds reasonable, Castaldi would seek to ally them in a 'Great and Secret Deal' under the table, and if such negotiations fail, seek to eradicate them. Giese would be somewhat more straightforward about things. He feels like a straightforward thinker, regardless of how sharp he is.

The thing is, killing the banker is a bit hard to do when they've also been working with your lower class and nobles, and have already collected from and bankrupted them, leaving you with no money with rich to raise the troops to kill the banker. Unlike the Jews of York, Danzig is a separate entity that can defend itself. Of course, it then becomes a game with two possible turning points: "When will the Teutons catch on?" or "When shall we stop leeching from them and repossess their lands?"

You make a good point here, Castaldi wouldn't be particularly concerned with Swedish independence, though he might find the break-up of the Kalmar Union an easy way to ensure there will be no further Sund problems. Giese would find it a delicious way to deconstruct Kalmar, and would be behind them every step of the way.

Giese and Castaldi last the first ~50 game years. I plan to reduce the complexity by having relatively slow power changes, thus reducing the number of possible ruling paths.

I suppose you have a point there. Catholicism would still be possible, just heinously (lovely word that) unlikely.

True, amongst other things, it would lead to a call for governmental reform, reactionary efforts amongst politicians, and other such conservativisms and panick amongst the populace. Naturally a production hit as so much political upheaval occurs during and after that person's reign.
 
Time Consumer said:
You make a good point here, Castaldi wouldn't be particularly concerned with Swedish independence, though he might find the break-up of the Kalmar Union an easy way to ensure there will be no further Sund problems. Giese would find it a delicious way to deconstruct Kalmar, and would be behind them every step of the way.

Here is where they converge with the Hansa instead of opposing them. Both want to see Kalmar break up and the Sund be tax free. The Hansa would like to extend their dominance to Jutland and the breakup of Kalmar would mean a weakend Denmark that might be forced to concede that terrain. So the two have a lot in common here. Of course, Danzig has no interest in hansa getting Jutland and as soon as it looked likely that Sweden would break from the Union, it would switch to supporting Danish sovereignty over Jtland and south.

Also, please accept a correction on my comment about claimants to the swedish throne. There was no such thing at this time. Rather, it would be powerful Swedish noble families (Bosson, Sture perhaps) who refuse to back the union and want Swedish independence from the union. Naturally, once they acheived this a king of some would be elected from among them.