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DD Tech tree and Naval Combat Improvement mod

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Just a few things to keep in mind: Building costs are halved, building time is doubled. So plan your builds ahead. Naval stats are different too, and with the German naval doctrine you won't be able to do long range amphib assaults. CVL's need CAGs.

Air is mostly the same, all the new doctrines are for 1943+.
 
Great Mod i really love it, really makes you plan both your builds and TF composition.

Bravo Zulu

is it possible to have the radar techs and aa techs affect the ships??

i know that there has been many threads on this about upgrading ships but historically fm about 1941 onwards most lvl4 ships had both their electronics upgraded [or installed for the first time] and aa was improved beyond all recognition compared to pre-war thinking.

there was quite a few naval battles in the Pacific theatre that demonstrate this and the different countries theories on electronics. ie the Japanese knew about radar [through spies] but thought that it was basically worthless especially for ships whilst the USN quickly recognised the worth of radar in Naval Vessels of War

just my thoughts
 
Well, early radar research techs have the effect of improving detection capability for ships. But I'm not entirely sure wether that works as it's supposed to. It seems the engine has some issues with techs modifying stats in-game.

Please let me know if you find any problems with it.
 
Hi, doesn't Stony Road also change some of those stats via tech. And if I remeber correctly they created that off map country that gets annexed several times a year because only then those stat changes made via some techs would get activated.
 
egslim said:
Yeah, I believe you're right. The Vatican, isn't it?

But I feel that solution is too much of a hack-job to implement in this mod.
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The call it the Armaments Ministery in v208 of the mod. As to being a hack job, it is but some items in this mod won't work, specifically the range updates for the nuclear escorts unless when it fires you build no more destroyers or cruisers. Only existing ships will get the range upgrade not new construction after the fact.

The upgrader does work but the trigger would need editing, perhaps make it review every 30 days and make it persistent. It currently only fires a few times a year at the mo, and if you have to reload a game it seems to reset the timing mechanism. (some people have to sleep you know and turn the game off when they do :wacko: )

cxheers
Mark
 
egslim said:
Yeah, I'll probably just remove those things from the mod for the next version.
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I want to tel you guys that I edmire you work,as it is most desirable an needed thing for HOI2 to emprove naval warfare.

Though you mod is excelent,here is my proposal for"Pocket Battleships"change.

What you think about instead of Pocket battleship-
"Treaty Battleship"(TB),
as represents of all compromise ships built becouse of "Treaty"imposed restrictions?

Something like:
Level 1- Auxillary battleship(Like Schlezwig-Holstein an other obsolete ships)
Level 2- Pocket battleship(Deutchland class tipe of vessel)
Level 3- Fast battleship(Japan Kongo class tipe of vessel)
Level 4- Convoy reaider(Scharnhorst tipe of vessel)
Level 5-Escort battleship-if player wishes to insist on compromise design.
 
Pocket battleships are a type of battlecruiser in my mod, they don't have their own class. Auxillary battleship is alread implemented as a pre-Dreadnought type (another battlecruiser) and I think Scharnhorst an Dunquerqe are already well implemented.

On the other hand, it is possible to give pre-built ships specific stats in the scenario. That's how the UK's monitors are implemented in the '38 scenario. So I might replace some other types by pre-built models, like the Italian upgraded battleships.

I'm also considering lowering all ships' naval defense by a significant amount, because I feel too often ships don't sink during battle.
 
I'm having a problem with my current UK game and maybe you can help me. I am in early 1940 now and so far I didn't encounter a single German ship or submarine. While I can understand that German AI keeps their surface fleet in ports since it is substantialy weaker than mine (and they didn't conquer French and Norway's ports yet) I can't understand why they don't try to sink my resource convoys with SS (?). I reloaded as Germany and they have at least 20 SS flottilas but they are just sitting idle in Kiel.

Any hints? Is something wrong with the German AI?

Another thing, is there a chance you could simulate 1939 - early 1940 sitzkrieg somehow? I find it way ahistroical and unrealistic to see dozens of AI and German planes skirmishing over Franco-German border as well as intensive strat. bombing from both sides. That didn't happen IRL for various reasons. Not to mention it puts a heavy drain on the forces on both sides (since losses are quite large).
 
The German AI only goes to sea from may '40. That's the standard DD AI, and I don't like it either. Perhaps I'll change that, but there are probably some tactical reasons for it to behave that way.

Having the AI simulate the sitzkrieg would be a little difficult. It means writing some new AI files and events to load them. Probably doable, but not on the top of my list.
 
The German AI only goes to sea from may '40. That's the standard DD AI, and I don't like it either. Perhaps I'll change that, but there are probably some tactical reasons for it to behave that way.
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OK, thanks for the info. It would be nice to change that, though, at least for SS...


Having the AI simulate the sitzkrieg would be a little difficult. It means writing some new AI files and events to load them. Probably doable, but not on the top of my list.
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I hope it'll reach it someday :D
 
I think it's impossible to make the AI sortie subs without sending out surface ships. That means the Royal Navy has time to destroy the German surface fleet before it receives its new French bases (making it less vulnerable to blockade) and before the Italian fleet comes into play - dividing UK's attention.
 
Here is my UK game update:

It is late 1940 now, everything is developing pretty historical. So far two theaters of naval war have opened, one in Northern sea and one in Meditteranean.
In Med. I'm fighting heavily and often with Regia Marina. Their fleets are made up pretty good (they have a main fleet with their 4 improved BBs (should be BB2 though) and a secondary pretty powerfull fleet made mainly of CAs). They are also making a good use of their NAVs, they even managed to severly cripple a couple of my BBs.
In northern sea there were some clashes with Kriegsmarine but considering the fact my best ships are patrolling the area I won most of them. Germans too have a pretty good fleets, the only thing I'm bothered with is that they tend to send small fleets (1 CL, 1 or 2 DDs) on patrol missions where they usually lost the whole fleet. They didn't dare to do that IRL. Their NAVs are pretty much inactive (or they didn't active enough), its a shame they don't use Norwegian airbases (would add some favour).

As for the subs the things are strange to say the least. I'm using them quite extensively in the meds and so far I have yet to lose one. I don't know why Italians don't use some of their ships on ASW duties. At least they attacked my SS, usually with NAVs but they didn't do much damage (I believe their sub attack rating should be higher). Maybe SS org is set a little to low as they disengage a bit to quickly (a little flaw is, that when you research better SS doctrines their org goes up so they are easier to destroy. I reccomend that improved SS doctrines actually lowers the SS org).

German subs...So far I didn't encounter a single one!!! I have at least 30DDs (and some 14 frigates) in 5-6 fleets assigned for ASW and they didn't spott a single German SS! Something is clearly wrong here. There were some attacks on my convoys (so far I lost around 50 transports) but I suspect they came from surface raiders, not SS...

Some other suggestions: IT would be great if AI would use NAVs for convoy raiding duties and (considering the new role of NAV and CAS) CAS for naval strikes...

edit: German AI should send their pocket BB on convoy raiding in Atlantic
 
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Spricar said:
In Med. I'm fighting heavily and often with Regia Marina. Their fleets are made up pretty good (they have a main fleet with their 4 improved BBs (should be BB2 though) and a secondary pretty powerfull fleet made mainly of CAs). They are also making a good use of their NAVs, they even managed to severly cripple a couple of my BBs.
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The Italian battleships were not comparable with the British Queen E's, they only had 13,5" guns versus 15".

the only thing I'm bothered with is that they tend to send small fleets (1 CL, 1 or 2 DDs) on patrol missions where they usually lost the whole fleet.
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Yeah, that's standard AI strategy and there's nothing I can do about it.

As for the subs the things are strange to say the least.
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Keep in mind that it's much easier to drive a sub off than it is to sink one. I found a group of 6 DD4's is pretty effective at killing them, though.

(a little flaw is, that when you research better SS doctrines their org goes up so they are easier to destroy. I reccomend that improved SS doctrines actually lowers the SS org).
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Are you sure? Because I have made every naval doctrine such that if it increases naval unit ORG it will decrease sub ORG by the same amount. Nor did I notice this bug in my own game.

At least they attacked my SS, usually with NAVs but they didn't do much damage (I believe their sub attack rating should be higher).
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Keep in mind that the first generation of Nav's was very poor against subs, their depthcharges weren't even powerful enough to sink one.

I reccomend that improved SS doctrines actually lowers the SS org).
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Interesting suggestion, but I fear it might conflict with the ORG bonus from standing army.

Some other suggestions: IT would be great if AI would use NAVs for convoy raiding duties and (considering the new role of NAV and CAS) CAS for naval strikes...

edit: German AI should send their pocket BB on convoy raiding in Atlantic
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Unfortunately it's not possible to assign specific unit types specific tasks. :(
In my own game I did find the Italians highly annoying with convoyraiding missions by NAVs.
 
Great update egslim!

Just one thing, I'm using Scyth and Kristoff's icons pack and there is quite a nasty transition between their icons and the new ones you've made for nuke carriers, SH cruisers, etc. It makes me hesitate before building the newer models.

You've basically created the new icons by slapping SH or a nuke symbol onto the preexisting icons. So couldn't you use Scyth and Kristoff's icons as the base instead and attach the SH/nuke/prefixes onto them?
 
The reason I did it this way was to have a seamless transition between Vanilla's and my models. Since I don't use any graphics pack, using a different style would basically just move your problem around - to me.

However, if you feel like adapting some icons from Scyth and Kristoff's icons pack to the new ships in this mod, I would be more than happy to host it as a DD-tech add-on. Giving you full credit, of course. :)
 
a little info...
Deutschland class BC aka "Pocketbattleship" or "Panzerkreuzer", range 8000 can go to 16000km under convoey raiding order wich brings the ships to malaya at max range :D
dont think thats WAD
max range 4000km for south atlantic would do

also i am impressed that SH-cruiser, Super-BB with adv. CL+DD as screen die so quick vs a 2:1 odds old french and UK fleet.
26 allied ships vs 18 german yielded 10 ships lost for the allies and 8 lost for germany with 4 Super BBs havy damaged and 2 supercruiser out of 4 sunck.
most sunck ships were screens, i lost the SH - CA 4 CL 2 DD while Allied fleet lost 1 CV 1 model 0 french BB, 1 old CA and 7 screens.
btw i had better positioning(about 5-8 min/max more then the uk fleet) and the better leader:p


deadly encounter...

took me 2 month to fix my ships

I thought i would do better vs those old ships (best enemy ships was KG V)
 
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