At least for eight divines, it appears that absolute cognatic is the default law that everyone uses. Is there any way to change it so agnatic is the default law?
Edit: I found a solution
Edit: I found a solution
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Check out this thread I made from a while back, where I asked the same question. Download the first mod file you see on that thread, not the second one. The second one is bugged and defaults to tanistry for everyone.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/changing-default-succession.1110779/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/changing-default-succession.1110779/
Absolute Cognatic is lore-friendly for most of the titles in the game. Tamriel had much better gender equality than Medieval Europe. Just ask High Queen Elisif of Skyrim, Empress Katariah of Tamriel, Queen Ayren of the first Aldmeri Dominion, Queen Barenziah of Morrowind, or Saint Alessia, founder and first Empress of the Cyrodiilic Empire.
Yeah but the AI doesn't understand this well enough to ensure it get matrimonial marriages.
I think it a bit of stretch to assume because there are female rulers that Absolute Cognatic was the rule rather than the exception, for example most of the Septim (and as far as we know Mede) Tamrielic Emperors are male, although I agree that there was certainly no Salic Law in most of Tamriel.
I am curious if it is the same for all cultures. Is is agnatic only in Argonia? Same with hammerfall and Khaniit.
If you go into the laws file, you will see the different gender succession laws. You can edit so it says under potential not = whatever cultures/religions you dont want having absolute cognatic
I realize it is more lore-friendly than agnatic (though i think agnatic-cognatic would be more accurate, but i could be wrong). I wasnt coming at this from a lore perspective, but a personal preference angle.
Vassals merging inheritance, particularly over de-jure subrealm borders is a problem. It's bad enough with men dying without heirs in agnatic realms. Landed females are the bane of neat internal borders.
That honestly sounds more like a personal, OCD type, problem than an issue that the mods have to fix.
I mean it totally is an ocd obsession that is my own problem, which is why i wasnt asking the mod makers to change the game, just for a personal solution.
Ok. I also wasn't responding to you because you already had a solution.
Have redguards succession been changed? IIRC it used to be agnatic by default? or agcog? It might seem trite but this actually puts them at considerable weakness when every other kingdom is cognatic, as they unify their realms through marriage and thus expand much quicker.
I whould love them to have a different gender law not because I am a sexist ass but becuase I want more diversity in cultures.
In all fairness, how many of these characters got their position based on a proper inheritance in the first place?
Queen Elisif was the widow of the High King and assumed the title upon her husband's death. Full disclosure I haven't really played Skyrim all that much, but according to UESP it says that the actual decision on who would become High King/Queen was delayed by the rebellion. Seems to me more like an elective type of succession with the moot and everything and Elisif pressing her claim. Not inherited by Primogeniture or necessarily any tradition that seems to be Absolute Cognatic. Elisif's situation is a common example in Elder Scrolls.
Empress Katariah is another case of gaining her titles from her husband. She used political guile to intrigue her way as Empress Regent during her husband's reign to become de facto ruler. She then became Empress proper upon her husbands death. Not inherited from Primogeniture.
Queen Ayrenn was being groomed to become ruler so I'm sure it was Absolute Cognatic Primogeniture since her younger brother was only named heir after her disappearance.
Queen Barenziah seems like she was going to inherit anyway even if Mournhold wasn't sacked and didn't go on her adventures, but as far as I know she didn't have any siblings, or any that lived anyway. Because of that I can't really say that it was Absolute Cognatic but I don't have any reason to doubt it if that's what the devs want for Dunmer.
Alessia became Empress through force of arms and being seen as a savior by her people, not because of any inheritance or gender laws in the Ayleid Empire.
It seems that only two of those aforementioned rulers got their titles through proper inheritance. The others got it from their husbands or just outright conquest. However I'm curious now so I did some more digging to try and find more examples of Absolute Cognatic Primogeniture - that is to say, an elder daughter inheriting a title over a younger brother. That's really the best and most clearcut example we can get. Here's a list of a bunch of female rulers:
Empress Kintyra I: Third Septim Emperor, inherited after Pelagius I died with no kids and so recieved the title based on being a cousin - the daughter of Tiber Septim's brother. No other siblings. Primogeniture? Definitely, but not necessarily Absolute Cognatic.
Empress Kintyra II: Inherited via Primogeniture, but had no sibling claimants. Can't necessarily say it was Absolute Cognatic.
Empress Morihatha: Inherited via Primogeniture, but her only sibling was a twin sister. Can't necessarily say it was Absolute Cognatic.
Countess Ariana Valga of Chorrol: Assumed her husband's title upon his death.
Countess Millona Umbranox of Anvil: Assumed her husband's title upon his disappearance.
Countess Ilise Manteau of Wind Keep: Assumed her husband's title upon his death. Asserts that remarrying would essentially give the husband the title.
Queen Arzhela: Assumed the title of Evermore after the deaths of her husband and children.
There are other female rulers, but I left them out mainly because there was no information about their manner of inheritance and I'm already throwing up a bunch of names. I also left out those who according to their info were consorts to the actual title holder. Examples of both being Countess Narina Carvain, who has no info in that regard and Countess Alessia Caro, who is not the proper title holder, but the wife of Count Marius Caro (Even though she actually calls the shots). Those characters are both from Oblivion, of which I make mention because there is NPC dialogue expressing surprise in how the three proper Countesses of Cyrodiil are able to rule in their own right without male support, which to me implies that it's an unusual thing.
I mainly listed all that stuff cause I'm bored and love reading Elder Scrolls lore. I don't have any real position on the debate if Absolute Cognatic ought to be the 'default' inheritance. Other than a few messy inheritances due to claim wars or through a cousin, the Septim imperial lineage was pretty clean. A lot of rulers had a lack of siblings. In fact, only a handful of rulers even had multiple kids. Uriel II had three children, Pelagius II had four known children, Magnus had two, Uriel V had twin daughters and finally Uriel VII had five kids. The cases where a daughter did inherit their parent's title could have easily happened under Agnatic-Cognatic since they didn't really have any competing male siblings. The cases where there was an inheritance with siblings, the eldest child was a male anyway so there wasn't even a question.
There really just aren't a whole lot of good examples of Absolute Cognatic Primogeniture because of this, but hey, I'm down for whatever the devs wanna do and at the same time I won't ever say no to more variety when it comes to regional laws if they wanna switch it up.
And hey, I could have missed some things so feel free to post a counter example. I didn't do 'hardcore' research, I simply plugged "Countess" "Duchess" and "Queen" into the search bar for UESP wiki as well as went down the Septim dynasty tree. So it by no means was an exhaustive effort. I would especially love more info in Dunmer and Redguard inheritence if there are any examples.
However the best common trend we can draw is the practice of a ruler's widow taking hold of her husband's titles if there are no proper heirs, which certainly seems to be the case of Imperial, Nordic and Breton societies at the very least. I don't really know if that counts as "Absolute Cognatic" though. Sadly, I don't think there are any systems in CK2 which makes it possible for spousal inheritance, which would add a whole other layer to the game's intrigue in my opinion.
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Well I can think of at least one example in ESO lore where Absolute primogeniture applied for an Eight divines follower. Initially the heir to East Skyrim was Jorunn the Skald King's elder sister Nurnhilde. It was his mother and sister's deaths in the Akaviri Invasion that led to him inheriting the throne. So perhaps absolute primogeniture was the norm during the Second era (it certainly didn't seem to be the case during the Third and Fourth Eras, especially under the Septim Empire). However, from a gameplay perspective, I do agree that the AI is too stupid to realize the need for matrimonial marriages. I've seen numerous human female rulers and female heirs marry normally and their lines go extinct. The Aldmeri seem OK, but the Eight divines humans don't seem to get it at all.
EDIT: Also, for removing absolute primogeniture as default, wouldn't it be easier to set the default = yes to default = no or remove that line entirely, rather than making it so eight divines can never had absolute gender succession? Or do I not understand modding that part.
EDIT: Also, for removing absolute primogeniture as default, wouldn't it be easier to set the default = yes to default = no or remove that line entirely, rather than making it so eight divines can never had absolute gender succession? Or do I not understand modding that part.
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hey i completely forgot in the newly released HF the Byzantine empire gets a new succession law that allows close family and even spouses to be up for succession....so maybe something can be done with this. Its like the ck2 devs are pushing out content perfect for ek
It seems then that instead of absolute-cognatic primogeniture as a default, some cultures should use a custom law in which spousal inheritance happens when there are no children. Of course, that would still basically be absolute-cognatic primogeniture just with added spouse inheritance potential. Anyways I think that diversity of succession laws is much better for gameplay variety. with how moddable the new elective succession can be, you can make a whole variety of new possible ways to inherit.
I agree diversity is key. Now that I think about it though Spousal inheritance might end up being problematic for taking land (and neat borders) via marriage if an infertile ruler marries a younger person, or someone with an already established family. So Im rethinking my preference for it becoming the default fix for the cognatic primo issues we were pointing out, but I definitely do like the idea of some parts of the map having it where it would make most sense.
If only I could demand my vassals adopt gavelkind xc
If only I could demand my vassals adopt gavelkind xc