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Still think this is unballanced;
I say no GOLD ever, CW are allready very, very strong and have alot of divs and and and do alot of good "teching". NO GOLD!! Dont care if its human CW or AI....
I say no GOLD ever, CW are allready very, very strong and have alot of divs and and and do alot of good "teching". NO GOLD!! Dont care if its human CW or AI....
Yeah. Puppets automatically joins your alliance when you are in one nowadays.(swe)tuuttu said:
(swe)tuuttu said:
If you don't allow gold sharing to CW nations, it will result in their troops being second or third class stuff from around 1940-41 and onward. In other words, they will end up being troops not suitable for actually fighting the Axis forces. Historically this was not the case, just look at the results of the Australian and New Zeeland forces in Afrika, or the Canadians in Normandy.
We have been using gold tech sharing among the CW for quite some time, and it does not unbalance things. The CW minors have very little manpower anyway, it's not like the Axis will be facing them in great number. What do the rest of you think on this matter?
MadViking said:
I agree with Tuuttu. I was a strong advocate of UNLIMITED tech share to CW in previous versions. But we have to live with our times. CW now start at same level as UK. UK is now much stronger. There is no need for bonus tech share to CW. Already if UK does NO land research at all and does not share tech, the CW will tech them up to the level of Germany.
So I say no bonus shares to CW
Perhaps silver trech share for CW nations is enough? But still no tech share beween other nations I say.Tomar said:
Comments on Rulez
2.7 Unit deployments: Newly produced or upgraded units must be deployed immediately. You can not keep them in the force pool. It is not allowed to move units around in the production que simply in order to delay their completion.
What is the rational for this rule ? In real life SU were able to mobilize very quickly. The Gemans underestimated soviet forcesby about 150 divisions etc;;; If you implement this rule you will remove all strategic surpirse in thegame, because everybody will know how many and what kind of forces everybody has . Also this rule is not balanced because it affects one country the most (i.e. SU). SU relies on quantity
I say scrap this rule
2.8 Strategic redeploy: As soon as a unit is ready to be redeployed it must be placed back on the map. You can not keep units in the strategic reserve. It is forbidden to strategically redeploy units into or out of a province that borders to an enemy province, or to a province where combat is currently taking place.
Given the size of provinces it makes no sense to prevent redeployment (so ennemies are 300 km away, so what ?) .. there are many real life examples of units detraining a few km from battle and joining the battle almost right away... A strategic reserve is good and should be kept. Again in real life, there is no such thing as empty provinces...There are many more military units than represented in HOI (reservists, gerndarmes etc...). Strategic redeploy is currently the only way to simulate that
I say scrap this rule
2.9 Surrounding enemy capital: Not allowed unless you attack the capital within a reasonable amount of time.
There is a lot of debate about this on the HOI PA... starting with "what is exactly surrounding capital"... This rule leads to counter exploits... e.g; stacking all units in capital because the ennemy is obliged to attack it.
Players should protect their capital and communication lines.. If they dont they pay the price...
3.8 Coup+DOW: Couping a nation simply in order to be able to DOW at more favorable conditions (such as avoiding a French AI auto-DOW, avoid raising US WE, avoid dissent) is not allowed. You may “re-coup” a nation that has been couped by the opposing side, and then DOW them if you wish (example: the Italian player may not coup Turkey and DOW them in order to avoid the French AI auto-DOW, but if the UK coups Yugoslavia so it becomes democratic, the Italians may coup them back to paternal autocrat and then DOW them).
There are no more auto dows.. there are spheres, so you can scrap this rule.
3.9 Annex: You must annex a country when this is possible (you can puppet instead if you want). You must try to capture the remaining provinces with victory points if this is possible.
Who care if Italy does not annex , say Albania, if Italy is anyway at war with the Allies ? Nor can you force a player to take risks in conquering a country. If you want to be comprehensive you need the following
The following is prohibited:
X Dowing a minor or remaining at war with one solely to benefit from a reduction in consumer goods needs.
X Dowing a minor on behalf of your allies (as evidenced by the fact that you receive less than 3 provinces after the country is annexed)
X Dowing a minor without actively attempting to conquer it or at least seize part of its territory. In this context actively means launching at least one attack immediately after the Dow (land attack or amphibious assault), seizing undefended territory and dispatching an adequate number of ground forces that will engage in ground combat with the aim of conquering that minor.
X Remaining at war with a minor nation even though you have fulfilled the conditions for annexation or could reasonably fulfill them without taking significant losses UNLESS you are at war against one of the 3 alliances (Comintern, Axis, Allies).
X Non annexation of Poland by Germany if MR pact is in effect and Germany has fulfilled or could reasonably fulfill the conditions for annexation without taking significant losses
And to finish
A rule preventing ANY side from allying a south american country until USA is at war is indispensable currently. Otherwise the Monroe doctrine will keep on firing
2.7 Unit deployments: Newly produced or upgraded units must be deployed immediately. You can not keep them in the force pool. It is not allowed to move units around in the production que simply in order to delay their completion.
What is the rational for this rule ? In real life SU were able to mobilize very quickly. The Gemans underestimated soviet forcesby about 150 divisions etc;;; If you implement this rule you will remove all strategic surpirse in thegame, because everybody will know how many and what kind of forces everybody has . Also this rule is not balanced because it affects one country the most (i.e. SU). SU relies on quantity
I say scrap this rule
2.8 Strategic redeploy: As soon as a unit is ready to be redeployed it must be placed back on the map. You can not keep units in the strategic reserve. It is forbidden to strategically redeploy units into or out of a province that borders to an enemy province, or to a province where combat is currently taking place.
Given the size of provinces it makes no sense to prevent redeployment (so ennemies are 300 km away, so what ?) .. there are many real life examples of units detraining a few km from battle and joining the battle almost right away... A strategic reserve is good and should be kept. Again in real life, there is no such thing as empty provinces...There are many more military units than represented in HOI (reservists, gerndarmes etc...). Strategic redeploy is currently the only way to simulate that
I say scrap this rule
2.9 Surrounding enemy capital: Not allowed unless you attack the capital within a reasonable amount of time.
There is a lot of debate about this on the HOI PA... starting with "what is exactly surrounding capital"... This rule leads to counter exploits... e.g; stacking all units in capital because the ennemy is obliged to attack it.
Players should protect their capital and communication lines.. If they dont they pay the price...
3.8 Coup+DOW: Couping a nation simply in order to be able to DOW at more favorable conditions (such as avoiding a French AI auto-DOW, avoid raising US WE, avoid dissent) is not allowed. You may “re-coup” a nation that has been couped by the opposing side, and then DOW them if you wish (example: the Italian player may not coup Turkey and DOW them in order to avoid the French AI auto-DOW, but if the UK coups Yugoslavia so it becomes democratic, the Italians may coup them back to paternal autocrat and then DOW them).
There are no more auto dows.. there are spheres, so you can scrap this rule.
3.9 Annex: You must annex a country when this is possible (you can puppet instead if you want). You must try to capture the remaining provinces with victory points if this is possible.
Who care if Italy does not annex , say Albania, if Italy is anyway at war with the Allies ? Nor can you force a player to take risks in conquering a country. If you want to be comprehensive you need the following
The following is prohibited:
X Dowing a minor or remaining at war with one solely to benefit from a reduction in consumer goods needs.
X Dowing a minor on behalf of your allies (as evidenced by the fact that you receive less than 3 provinces after the country is annexed)
X Dowing a minor without actively attempting to conquer it or at least seize part of its territory. In this context actively means launching at least one attack immediately after the Dow (land attack or amphibious assault), seizing undefended territory and dispatching an adequate number of ground forces that will engage in ground combat with the aim of conquering that minor.
X Remaining at war with a minor nation even though you have fulfilled the conditions for annexation or could reasonably fulfill them without taking significant losses UNLESS you are at war against one of the 3 alliances (Comintern, Axis, Allies).
X Non annexation of Poland by Germany if MR pact is in effect and Germany has fulfilled or could reasonably fulfill the conditions for annexation without taking significant losses
And to finish
A rule preventing ANY side from allying a south american country until USA is at war is indispensable currently. Otherwise the Monroe doctrine will keep on firing
Because you sue for peace later on, I think that all attacks against puppets should be considerd as exploits. Yes I know, its not Germany that attacks but he will make sure that Vichy dosnt defend.
- lowers WE
- Gives IC to Italy
- Makes it easier to defend
+ Make sense in some strange way but I still consider it an exploit untill they make an even that allows Germany to give/or take Vichy (like IRL), this should offcourse boost USA WE.
I know excellent boardgames that get along with less rules. I always thought a main advantage of computer games is that you don't have to bother about the rules? 
Main advantage with computer games is that they can be fun. How to get there may differ.Isebrand said:I know excellent boardgames that get along with less rules. I always thought a main advantage of computer games is that you don't have to bother about the rules?
(swe)tuuttu said:
It does NOT lower US WE
Vichy has no units in 1.06 (they all end up in Cayenne, magically) do cant defend anyway and no supplies either
And Vichy is really poorly modelled currently. If you want to prohibit dowing Vichy by Italy or japan,then you must add a rule that all free french land+air units over 12 and all free french naval units over 6 must be disbanded. As currently we have these ridiculous 90+ units free french armies.
Concerning the rather large amount of house rules:
To most of the DEG players, the majority of the house rules are second-nature, the kind of stuff you realy don't think about. The existence of the house rules has come from players in previous DEG-games who play by the maxim "everything is allowed, as long as there is no house rule against it". Also, it is better to have any minor issues settled BEFORE the game starts, so precious game time is not spent discussing these matters.
Concerning Vichy:
Vichy France might not work very well as of currently, but if you do not like the current way it works, simply choose "Total conquest is prefered" when you get the event. Nobody is forcing you to activate Vichy.
To most of the DEG players, the majority of the house rules are second-nature, the kind of stuff you realy don't think about. The existence of the house rules has come from players in previous DEG-games who play by the maxim "everything is allowed, as long as there is no house rule against it". Also, it is better to have any minor issues settled BEFORE the game starts, so precious game time is not spent discussing these matters.
Concerning Vichy:
Vichy France might not work very well as of currently, but if you do not like the current way it works, simply choose "Total conquest is prefered" when you get the event. Nobody is forcing you to activate Vichy.
Vichy , Vichy
To which we might answer, if you like the way Vichy is modelled, why do put restrictions on axis relations with it and declare that dowing it is an exploit ? (where as for example the Japanese commonly dow and annex Manchuria without any fuss)...
As for total conquest is prefered, as you know very well, that is NOT a viable option for the axis in the current set up of the game. :rofl:
MadViking said:
To which we might answer, if you like the way Vichy is modelled, why do put restrictions on axis relations with it and declare that dowing it is an exploit ? (where as for example the Japanese commonly dow and annex Manchuria without any fuss)...
As for total conquest is prefered, as you know very well, that is NOT a viable option for the axis in the current set up of the game. :rofl: