• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

OcarinaGamingYT

Corporal
41 Badges
Feb 28, 2017
40
67
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III Referal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron 4: Arms Against Tyranny
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
READ FIRST: I know there will be people that will disagree, and I understand that. I want to clarify before that these are not me saying that these features are bad, but rather airing my concerns about the trajectory of Hearts of Iron IV as a game.

The ship, tank, and air designers added by Man the Guns, No Step Back, and By Blood Alone respectively are great additions to the game. However, I do think that there should be an option to toggle that feature off in game settings and have it without the DLC. This would not only give players a smoother experience, but it also ties in the next concern I have, which is overengineering of the game, or as I like to call it, nanomanagement.

Hearts of Iron IV, with its myriad of wonderfully interesting decisions, timed events, and features adds depth to the game. Depth is great, but then it gets to the point where, especially after the release of Götterdämmerung and the upcoming release of Graveyard of Empires, that the game is beginning to stray away from just micromanagement (which isn't a problem in itself, sometimes it needs to be done, like in all PDX games), but into the territory of what I dub nanomanagement. You have too many things to focus on at once, which causes some things to slip your mind (whether in research/special projects, timed decisions, focuses, designing new tanks/ships/planes, or even on the battlefield), which can make or break a playthrough (or several). Nanomanagement isn't just a problem for normal people, as it can make playthroughs inconvenient at best or ruin them at worst (which sucks, especially if you've spent hours on a playthrough), but also for people with certain mental conditions (especially those with autism spectrum disorder). The addition of new features is great, but when it gets to the level of so many buttons to click (see mods like Kaiserreich, Cold War, and especially TNO for examples of this) and you get lost in a sea of things to do, it can become incredibly hectic for someone to manage, and before you know it, you have to restart.

This gets me to my final point, and that is the priority of what should be updated. New features are wonderful, as I stated before, but there's also some things that have a lack of updating (sometimes to the point of being several years since they were last touched upon). Hungary used to be included under this category, but with the release of Götterdämmerung, it is no longer so. Countries like Japan, China, the PRC, Manchuria, and the various Warlords, for example, haven't been majorly updated since the release of Waking the Tiger. Countries like Mongolia, Mengjiang, the Philippines, or even flavour events (or possibly a playable administration) for Korea, don't even have focus trees, even though these countries did more for the war and World War II history than a country like, say, Switzerland or Afghanistan (note: I love the Swiss focus tree). This point is even further cemented that for the first time in almost ten years, we're getting an update for at least one of the British Dominions: the Raj. I've wanted an update to the Raj, as well as an overhaul for all the Dominions, for quite some time, and it's good to see that we're finally getting one. I think we should update them all, as the Dominion trees are notoriously in need of an update, and especially with their interactions with Britain (this is especially poignant with Newfoundland, as it was a Dominion, then put under the rule of a non-elected "Commission of Government" from 1934 to 1949, and almost joined the United States or resumed "responsible government" instead of outright joining Canada. The referendum may or may not have been rigged in Canada's favour--something that is up for debate to this day).

TL;DR: The ship, tank, and air designers in recent DLCs for Hearts of Iron IV are great but could use an option to toggle them off for smoother gameplay. The game is adding in too many buttons, leading to nanomanagement, where players get overwhelmed with all the things to manage. This can especially affect people with certain mental conditions. Additionally, while new features are great, older content like focus trees for certain countries (e.g., Japan, China, Mongolia, Canada, Australia, etc) still need updates. The recent Raj update is a step in the right direction, but more updates are needed for these countries with ailing focus trees (or lack of content at all).
 
  • 19Like
  • 4
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
but it also ties in the next concern I have, which is overengineering of the game, or as I like to call it, nanomanagement.

Hearts of Iron IV, with its myriad of wonderfully interesting decisions, timed events, and features adds depth to the game. Depth is great, but then it gets to the point where, especially after the release of Götterdämmerung and the upcoming release of Graveyard of Empires, that the game is beginning to stray away from just micromanagement (which isn't a problem in itself, sometimes it needs to be done, like in all PDX games), but into the territory of what I dub nanomanagement. You have too many things to focus on at once, which causes some things to slip your mind (whether in research/special projects, timed decisions, focuses, designing new tanks/ships/planes, or even on the battlefield), which can make or break a playthrough (or several). Nanomanagement isn't just a problem for normal people, as it can make playthroughs inconvenient at best or ruin them at worst (which sucks, especially if you've spent hours on a playthrough), but also for people with certain mental conditions (especially those with autism spectrum disorder). The addition of new features is great, but when it gets to the level of so many buttons to click (see mods like Kaiserreich, Cold War, and especially TNO for examples of this) and you get lost in a sea of things to do, it can become incredibly hectic for someone to manage, and before you know it, you have to restart.
Yes. So many recent features just seems like adding clicks for the sake of adding clicks, to give the illusion of depth.
 
  • 10
  • 7Like
Reactions:
Yes. So many recent features just seems like adding clicks for the sake of adding clicks, to give the illusion of depth.
I say that there is a lot of depth the dev team is doing, and major props to them (it ain't easy work!), but I do agree that some of it does seem a bit like ways to fill up time rather than provide deeper historical depth. Everything can't be perfect though
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
While I personally don't feel the "nanomanagment" itself is too much for me (and rather struggle with UI, bugs or omissions -like missing presets for most nations navies-. which make it unnecessarily hard to manage some things), I see the (BTW, well written! :) ) point @OcarinaGamingYT might have for others here. That said, I wouldn't object, if the devs gave us an option to disable the unit designers as an option, even if the DLC bringing them is active.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
More options to player is allways good!
IMHO

I like designers, but it would also be nice to only play with historical designs… also with units and divicions. Human player like me allways min max and… AI does not. But if I would have same crappy division and tanks and airoplanes as AI.. the game would be more challenging! And also more historical, so option to turn of all options to change units… would be good!
But just as an option…
 
Last edited:
  • 5Like
Reactions:
I've wanted this since the ship designer, it's just so tedious. I feel like by the time we get hoi6 we'll have individual infantry, cargo plane and truck designers
 
  • 2Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I think the issue you are raising here is helpful to point out, but I suspect it’s just an unintended consequence of the new direction focus trees are taking. No Step Back really raised the bar with its focus trees (arguably Spain in LR set the ball rolling) and every country reworked since has followed suit. This is a good thing, but the result is that older trees just feel lame by comparison.

Another issue is that when new features are added they are not always implemented evenly. So for example, only a handful of nations have access to a balance of power or similar mechanic to represent domestic politics. Propaganda, a fun way to add unique flavour to the major powers, is only an option for the USSR (perhaps understandable in the case of Germany). There are not many unique MIO traits for most countries.

Personally I would be happier with the state of HOI4 if more attention was given to integrating new mechanics into older focus trees. The latest DLC took a stab at this by updating some old trees with focuses for research facilities, but I can’t help wanting more. I think it’s a fair compromise while we wait and see if or when those older trees will be reworked completely.
 
  • 11Like
Reactions:
A lot of these issues could actually be fixed easily IF ONLY the devs EVER put some effort into quality-of-life features instead of focus trees and mechanics.

- Add a possibility to save a tank/airplane/navy design templates (either for all countries, or for specific countries) - you don't have to use the designer at all afterwards.
- Add a possibility to save a MIO queue
- Add research Queuing
- Add some sort of Alert when part of your frontline is unmanned and enemy is advancing through.
- Reduce the Notification SPAM - there are now up to 20 concurrent notifications ranging from Very important to 'completely useless' all lined up next to each other.
- Add option to manually set which notifications are shown, and which pop ups are shown - Why is war declaration a 'Low priority message' that just vanishes after a few seconds??? When playing at higher pace I often completely miss WHO declared war on WHO. This was such a horrible design choice with the latest UI update.

Look at how much effort the dev. team of Stellaris puts into UI and automation. In HoI IV convenience is basically an afterthought.
 
  • 14
  • 2Love
Reactions:
I just want them to add a lot more notifications, particularly for spy stuff, basically like every other Paradox game does.
Also, it would be GREAT for HoI4 if they added that mod that allows you to create alarms to the game.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Arheo (or one of the other devs) have responded to a previous request for toggling the designers. They said that maintaining balance/compatibility across multiple DLC combinations is already very difficult, and adding the ability to toggle on/off certain DLC features-- thus adding more feature combinations-- would increase this more than they think is worth.
 
  • 3Like
  • 3
Reactions:
READ FIRST: I know there will be people that will disagree, and I understand that. I want to clarify before that these are not me saying that these features are bad, but rather airing my concerns about the trajectory of Hearts of Iron IV as a game.

The ship, tank, and air designers added by Man the Guns, No Step Back, and By Blood Alone respectively are great additions to the game. However, I do think that there should be an option to toggle that feature off in game settings and have it without the DLC. This would not only give players a smoother experience, but it also ties in the next concern I have, which is overengineering of the game, or as I like to call it, nanomanagement.

Hearts of Iron IV, with its myriad of wonderfully interesting decisions, timed events, and features adds depth to the game. Depth is great, but then it gets to the point where, especially after the release of Götterdämmerung and the upcoming release of Graveyard of Empires, that the game is beginning to stray away from just micromanagement (which isn't a problem in itself, sometimes it needs to be done, like in all PDX games), but into the territory of what I dub nanomanagement. You have too many things to focus on at once, which causes some things to slip your mind (whether in research/special projects, timed decisions, focuses, designing new tanks/ships/planes, or even on the battlefield), which can make or break a playthrough (or several). Nanomanagement isn't just a problem for normal people, as it can make playthroughs inconvenient at best or ruin them at worst (which sucks, especially if you've spent hours on a playthrough), but also for people with certain mental conditions (especially those with autism spectrum disorder). The addition of new features is great, but when it gets to the level of so many buttons to click (see mods like Kaiserreich, Cold War, and especially TNO for examples of this) and you get lost in a sea of things to do, it can become incredibly hectic for someone to manage, and before you know it, you have to restart.

This gets me to my final point, and that is the priority of what should be updated. New features are wonderful, as I stated before, but there's also some things that have a lack of updating (sometimes to the point of being several years since they were last touched upon). Hungary used to be included under this category, but with the release of Götterdämmerung, it is no longer so. Countries like Japan, China, the PRC, Manchuria, and the various Warlords, for example, haven't been majorly updated since the release of Waking the Tiger. Countries like Mongolia, Mengjiang, the Philippines, or even flavour events (or possibly a playable administration) for Korea, don't even have focus trees, even though these countries did more for the war and World War II history than a country like, say, Switzerland or Afghanistan (note: I love the Swiss focus tree). This point is even further cemented that for the first time in almost ten years, we're getting an update for at least one of the British Dominions: the Raj. I've wanted an update to the Raj, as well as an overhaul for all the Dominions, for quite some time, and it's good to see that we're finally getting one. I think we should update them all, as the Dominion trees are notoriously in need of an update, and especially with their interactions with Britain (this is especially poignant with Newfoundland, as it was a Dominion, then put under the rule of a non-elected "Commission of Government" from 1934 to 1949, and almost joined the United States or resumed "responsible government" instead of outright joining Canada. The referendum may or may not have been rigged in Canada's favour--something that is up for debate to this day).

TL;DR: The ship, tank, and air designers in recent DLCs for Hearts of Iron IV are great but could use an option to toggle them off for smoother gameplay. The game is adding in too many buttons, leading to nanomanagement, where players get overwhelmed with all the things to manage. This can especially affect people with certain mental conditions. Additionally, while new features are great, older content like focus trees for certain countries (e.g., Japan, China, Mongolia, Canada, Australia, etc) still need updates. The recent Raj update is a step in the right direction, but more updates are needed for these countries with ailing focus trees (or lack of content at all).
I understand you Brother in autistic spectre (i am asperger) i feel you so much.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
More options to player is allways good!
More player options is not always good because those options come at the cost of extra complexity in new systems that take the player's time and attention. If the new options are very insignificant or could be equally well enabled using existing systems, then adding a new system for them is bad. Apparently unlike most of you, I actually like HOI4's core gameplay and don't want to be distracted every 2 minutes by some boffin knocking on the door of my fuhrerbunker to ask me what sort of rivets I want on his new gizmo!
 
  • 2Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
A lot of these issues could actually be fixed easily IF ONLY the devs EVER put some effort into quality-of-life features instead of focus trees and mechanics.

- Add a possibility to save a tank/airplane/navy design templates (either for all countries, or for specific countries) - you don't have to use the designer at all afterwards.
- Add a possibility to save a MIO queue
- Add research Queuing
- Add some sort of Alert when part of your frontline is unmanned and enemy is advancing through.
- Reduce the Notification SPAM - there are now up to 20 concurrent notifications ranging from Very important to 'completely useless' all lined up next to each other.
- Add option to manually set which notifications are shown, and which pop ups are shown - Why is war declaration a 'Low priority message' that just vanishes after a few seconds??? When playing at higher pace I often completely miss WHO declared war on WHO. This was such a horrible design choice with the latest UI update.

Look at how much effort the dev. team of Stellaris puts into UI and automation. In HoI IV convenience is basically an afterthought.
I like to train my navy and airmen to regulars. But how often I forgot I had navy in training and wasting fuel for months. Would be nice if I could train them and it would automatically stop when regulars.
An option to give a notification when I reach 100 or 150 PP. Very often I save PP for specific things only to forget it later.
Reduce naval battle notification spam. There are so many notifications but most of those battles are not interesting.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Shift+K to train to regulars, this was added years back but isn't explained well in the game if you didn't catch the patchnotes back then I think.

You already have saved equipment templates, but since the AI uses them, they are only historical ones. But if you really want to interact with the designer as little as possible, just use a pre-definded template. Then you are gonna play on a more even playground with the AI either way.

I still would love research, focus queue as we have with MIOs. Having templates for those queues saved outside, would be the icing on top.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I think one of the key issues with all the designers is the massive imbalance in modules. There is straight up just zero reason to be using certain technologies, and the vanilla "meta" for SP is just so much better than anything the AI can produce the designer practically wins you the theatre by itself.

Submarines dominate the naval theatre, but even without you can build a cheap fleet of light cruisers, or even just three BCs/BBs/SHBBs, and still run rings around the AI.

Tanks were always pretty silly because the AI so seldom builds them, but now the space marine TD/SPAA strat is much easier, and when you actually want a tank you are only ever concerned with soft attack - zero reason to build proper TDs.

The Air war is the worst. It got fundamentally broken with BBA. Prior to this, even with maxed out end game fighter tech, defeating an intact allies in the air post '45 was a real challenge. Now any minor can do it because the AI cannot build a fighter that can compete with HMGs/Cannon IIs and SSFT and one armour plate. Trades have gone from being fairly balanced to commonly 10/30/sometimes 100s to 1 unless you purposefully design a bad fighter. It has been this way since BBA, which is honestly awful.

I see the nanomanagement problem as being a symptom of this larger problem of balance. Because the balance is static and so skewed towards certain technologies, there's no reason to explore different techs, so every time you are opening a designer it is just to repeat the same design you have done before, unless you are purposefully choosing something sub par to RP. This makes the entire mechanic just busywork and is the reason why everyone wants templates in the same way MIOs have them - to avoid having to do something which is already "solved".

At the very least stats need to be better normalised to reduce the gap between "best in slot" (BiS) and the rest, but my radical solution would be to go further, and introduce a small amount of RNG in the stats of technologies when they are unlocked, making different combinations of modules BiS for different nations when combined with other buffs (spirits, MIOs etc.). If you roll bad, then your Cannon II might start off as worse than average, but could get back to average stats after seeing some combat. If you roll well, then well done you get a small (nothing obscene) unique buff to the module. Could even have it so certain '36 majors have a slightly better chance to roll above-average. Obviously would be a lot harder to balance and is not something I'm confident PDX could implement effectively, but hey, that's my radical suggestion.
 
  • 11Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
me autistic too <3 and yeah I often forget about things like starting spy mission (such as 1st collaboration government, those before auto repeat can do it) or I am overwhelmed by amount of stuff to do in short time like division designing, then there might be not enough ground xp to save template and everything has to be made again, I wish designs (both divisions and equipment) were persistent over games, with only xp cost calculated. And yeah I like ability to design templates, but AIs are so bad in using them, that I'd need to join a multiplayer game or use some mod (is there is even any) to have a proper practice rather than winning everything
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I like designers, but it would also be nice to only play with historical designs…
Agreed. Especially if you're wanting accuracy, historical templates would be best to do instead of trying to play a guessing game.
No Step Back really raised the bar with its focus trees (arguably Spain in LR set the ball rolling) and every country reworked since has followed suit. This is a good thing, but the result is that older trees just feel lame by comparison.
Oh, it absolutely did. I will comment, however, is that there is some history missing from not only the older trees (and some newer ones, but hey, it happens), but whole gaps within the flavour events and systems that gloss over important things that happened during the war. Now I know you can't portray everything, but as I said, the Dominions need an update, the Philippines needs content, Japan needs an update (and alongside it, Korea needs content/flavour, as does Manchuria and Mengjiang), on top of general QoL fixes for those countries. Also with the new raid mechanic, a Pearl Harbour event would be due...
There are not many unique MIO traits for most countries.
Fully agree.
A lot of these issues could actually be fixed easily IF ONLY the devs EVER put some effort into quality-of-life features instead of focus trees and mechanics.
That, but focus trees also needing updates does fall under QoL for certain countries.
They said that maintaining balance/compatibility across multiple DLC combinations is already very difficult, and adding the ability to toggle on/off certain DLC features-- thus adding more feature combinations-- would increase this more than they think is worth
I think it'd be more worth it than they think, so I'd hope for them to reassess this choice. Sure, it'd be a good bit of work, but it'd be well worth it in the end.
I understand you Brother in autistic spectre (i am asperger) i feel you so much.
Though I myself am not autistic, I have worked with many people (personally and professionally) who are. It sucks at times, especially when there's a seeming lack of awareness by the gaming sphere (not to imply anything, by the way, but just my two cents as a whole).
I think one of the key issues with all the designers is the massive imbalance in modules. There is straight up just zero reason to be using certain technologies, and the vanilla "meta" for SP is just so much better than anything the AI can produce the designer practically wins you the theatre by itself.
Definitely. The meta for SP melts the AI's troops so much that it isn't even a challenge. I remember I was doing a game as Poland recently and melted the Wehrmacht because my troop composition was just so much better than the AI's.
And yeah I like ability to design templates, but AIs are so bad in using them, that I'd need to join a multiplayer game or use some mod (is there is even any) to have a proper practice rather than winning everything
I getcha. Needs to be more optimisation on that front regarding AI usage of them, if they are to be used.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I have no issues with the game. Too much? Drink some coffee.. a lot of coffee.

You don't HAVE to mess with the designs and as a matter of fact, i barely do compared to others. I generally stick to what works for that country. For Germany I generally just buff the support brigades for the default Division Designer of each template. As for the tank, plane, and ship designer i generally just tweak them a bit to my liking while still be close to history. Paradox also kind of chimed into this already with Historical Templates for tanks and ships. I forget if they did that for aircraft but you get my point. Not sure what the OP has planned to accomplish as there are already historical designs you can just use or unlock.

There really is no NEED to design your own platform. Its just beneficial if you do.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Tend to agree with the original poster the game is starting to have too much to keep up with. Some of the older aspects such as the intel agencies are really showing their age. It's nice that MIOs allow you to pick the traits and then forget about them, but intel agencies don't have this feature.

That said I like the new weapon/special project facilities. I think ideally in HOI5 I'd like to see a combination of research, think theoretical then weapon facilities but having it apply to other regular equipment. This would prevent 'tech rushing' and would limit minor powers. It may require some additional balancing but it would give more a feel of real engineering, taking a break through in a field and then going through the process of developing a prototype.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I've seen mods that add decisions to acquire hiistorical tank/plane designs when the technology becomes available. Pay a few xp, get the historical design with the right image attached.

You could take that one additional step and give those historical designs a buff. Then tell the AI to only use those designs. That way the AI is using designs that we know aren't totally useless.

...and that still leaves a human player with the option to forego the historical buffed design and do their own thing. You'll still be able to optimize to your heart's content...or you can just ignore that and use the reasonably efficient designs provided.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions: