[Dev Team] 4.0.16 Hotfix Released (checksum 05ae)

[unmerged(460618)]

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I made a custom mod to fix them this is the list of bugs I found:

• Necrophage will always trigger does not grow and does not use bonus growth in the pop logic
• Necrophage purging always floors to 0 and resulting in the necropurge never generating unity. (there is a bunch of purge bugs here because they where not scaled but swapped to a per_100_pop call that floors the result.
• Purging results in escaped pops when there is no where for the pop to be a refugee. (this is the one that I assume is fixed by the beta but haven't played it yet.

With those patched necrophage works. But notably I am not sure if the first one is intentional or not now because the game was changed in 4.0.16 to use a shared grouping for pop growth. I also don't know if that is a bug or not. But any biological species now counts for pop growth and species logisitic cap is per planet not per species. It was never per subspecies but species so I assumed it was always on purpose and not a bug. If that regression in 4.0.16 is a bug then the necro change I made is correct if it is not a bug then I guess you could leave it as is. Though TBH it is still often a lot better to grow necros directly if you bio ascend because you can bypass most of their popgrowth penalties from earlier.

The second point (necro purge always floors to 0) is not quite correct. What happens is the purge operates per faction and if one refugee roll is made, the whole faction escapes. You can test this on a multi-faction world that has been conquered. You can save and reroll a purge/refugee roll and see the different outcomes of the roll with the population changing to correspond to which factions escaped or not (and just purged normally).

As to to the necrophage pop growth, this is defo a bug of some sorts as you note as you can start with mutagenic spas and hedonism, and gain around 60% pop growth from month 1, not including egg laying/etc. Necrophage pop growth will still be zero, so something is preventing it from growing at all.

If pop growth multpliers could apply to necrophage, it would be more playable, but the split in species and the way pop growth is now calculated, means that the slave species will not grow enough pops by year 10 to balance necrophaging. So there are still mechanically major problems with the race.

I think the pre-FTL populations need to be increased again to compensate.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

My bug report has a save file if you haven't seen it yet. Same exact thing.

Thanks, that put me in the right direction!

 

[Red Death]

I think the pre-FTL populations need to be increased again to compensate.

Maybe more importantly, the balance of pops on the starting planet needs to be shifted towards the non-Necrophage species.

Regular empires now start you with 3600 Necro to 1200 non-Necro. Meanwhile Hive Minds get 4700 to 600 (Even worse!). Fanatic purifiers is 4400 to 600 (more understandable, not like they'll grow anyway. But it would still be nice to have more of a "growing period" to start with).

 

[LameFox]

Have you got a save I can look at for this?

Should be visible in this (mods are cosmetic, you will be missing a namelist and portraits but it doesn't prevent loading).

 

[cerberus189]

is the a patch today or are we on every Thursday timeline now?

I just hope the next patch fixes the civics that currently dont work like memorialists and oppressive autocracy.

 

[L-Histidine]

Thanks for the Synaptic Lathe fix in beta!

Is it intentional that the lathe is purging at <4k pops present, as also reported e.g. here and here? Arguably a good change insofar as it gives me a reason to use the -purge speed building instead of double overclocking a steady state lathe, but it's burning my civvies unsustainably.

Either way I'd greatly appreciate some UI to determine the purge rate.

 

[Anzaman]

Just minor bug, but figured I'd still bring it up in case it's been gone unnoticed.

It's kinda funny idea how based on the text, I'd need to conquer and/or kidnap pops from the next Empire on the map to gain amenities.

Playing as regular Machine Intelligence.

 

[Eladrin]

Is it intentional that the lathe is purging at <4k pops present, as also reported e.g. here and here? Arguably a good change insofar as it gives me a reason to use the -purge speed building instead of double overclocking a steady state lathe, but it's burning my civvies unsustainably.

Yes, it's intended. The "stable state" floor was kind of a hack to prevent it from depopulating under some edge cases, but should no longer be necessary.

Some more additions that will be in 4.0.17 that aren't in the current beta include:

• Reverted the most recent changes to fallen empire building limitations. We'll be looking at a better solution for a future patch.
• Further Improved the Behemoth Fury endings
• Added the Voidspawn Myocardius relic awarded to whomever manages to take down the Elder Voidspawn

We've also fixed the save corruption and ftl drive issues.

Edit: I've been informed that while we've fixed the save corruption issue from the Open Beta in the build planned for release, it does not repair corrupted saves. There have been comments saying that you can "launder" the corrupted save by loading it in the 4.0.16 branch and saving to make it loadable in 4.0.17+.

 

[DiscoRay]

Reverted the most recent changes to fallen empire building limitations. We'll be looking at a better solution for a future patch.

Thanks, this was badly needed!

 

[turtleturtle111]

The second point (necro purge always floors to 0) is not quite correct. What happens is the purge operates per faction and if one refugee roll is made, the whole faction escapes. You can test this on a multi-faction world that has been conquered. You can save and reroll a purge/refugee roll and see the different outcomes of the roll with the population changing to correspond to which factions escaped or not (and just purged normally).

The trigger runs per pop group not per planet. So since each pop group will be under 100 unless you have gone Galactic Nemesis will always result in a number less then 1. I fixed it by switching to groups of 20, because I am terrible at stellaris scoping rules and couldn't make it just multiply. Most of the other purge events are switched to run per pop and yes I mean while loop calling whatever PER POP. Notably Nemesis purge points are not and run with per_100_local_pop_amount which divs by 100 and floors the result. Generally this impossible to be less then 100 but if you have under 100 pops the event doesn't fire its easy to see by having a species auto convert to another and purging the second species. As that will always be 25 pops each time.

        while = {
            count = value:per_100_local_pop_amount #always 0 is per pop group 
            if = {
                limit = {
                    from = {
                        OR = {
                            has_active_tradition = tr_harmony_unity_of_self
                            has_active_tradition = tr_synchronicity_unity_of_mind
                        }
                    }
                }
                from = {
                    add_monthly_resource_mult = {
                        resource = unity
                        value = 1.5
                        min = 5
                        max = 100
                    }
                }
            }
        }

^ we can 100% do this one via multiplication

Some effects that are per pop:

while = {
                count = local_pop_amount
                add_opinion_modifier = { who = FROM modifier = opinion_necrophage_our_species }
            }

^ I don't think this one is possible to do via multiplication

 

[turtleturtle111]

As to to the necrophage pop growth, this is defo a bug of some sorts as you note as you can start with mutagenic spas and hedonism, and gain around 60% pop growth from month 1, not including egg laying/etc. Necrophage pop growth will still be zero, so something is preventing it from growing at all.

Here is the code that is broken for pop growth.

can_species_procreate = {
    is_sapient = yes
    NOR = {
        has_trait = trait_machine_unit
        has_trait = trait_mechanical
        has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }

species_uses_bonus_growth = {
    is_sapient = yes
    has_population_control = {
        type = no
        country = root.owner
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }

Rip out the necrophage checks and it works fine. IDK if this is intentional or not because the current behavior if you pull these out is that logistic growth per planet is shared so you end up with very poor pop growth if these checks don't run. The other issue though is the check itself should also be verifying whatever can be necrophaged can also grow doesn't have population controls enabled or can grow otherwise, though the later may generate a recursive call issue. There may also be a miss match between when this rule is run because I had A LOT of trouble getting it to be reevaluated. I don't think it fires as constantly as the actual code requires it to. I assume this was an optimization at some point.

 

[DelphineasSD]

Here is the code that is broken for pop growth.

can_species_procreate = {
    is_sapient = yes
    NOR = {
        has_trait = trait_machine_unit
        has_trait = trait_mechanical
        has_trait = trait_limited_cybernetic
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }

species_uses_bonus_growth = {
    is_sapient = yes
    has_population_control = {
        type = no
        country = root.owner
    }
    NAND = {
        root = { has_modifier = slave_colony }
        NOT = { has_citizenship_type = { type = citizenship_slavery country = root.owner } }
    }
    if = {
        limit = {
            has_trait = trait_necrophage
        }
        NOT = {
            root = {
                any_owned_species = {
                    has_population_control = { country = root.owner type = no }
                    species_can_be_necrophaged = yes
                }
            }
        }
    }

Rip out the necrophage checks and it works fine. IDK if this is intentional or not because the current behavior if you pull these out is that logistic growth per planet is shared so you end up with very poor pop growth if these checks don't run. The other issue though is the check itself should also be verifying whatever can be necrophaged can also grow doesn't have population controls enabled or can grow otherwise, though the later may generate a recursive call issue. There may also be a miss match between when this rule is run because I had A LOT of trouble getting it to be reevaluated. I don't think it fires as constantly as the actual code requires it to. I assume this was an optimization at some point.

Maybe a reason to make Thrall Worlds a Guaranteed Tech for Necrophages?

 

[TSBasilisk]

Hey can you check your game I am making a bug report but I keep seeing colony ships that don't have an FTL drive (or any parts for that matter). That seems to be causing the AI not colonizing bug. I am looking at the chosen in my game right now and it happened to them.

I actually had this bug hit me last night. I was running a Genesis build but had colonized all my available worlds I was willing to take after restoring the L-Cluster and uplifting all the new species. I then swapped to a new civic.

A while later, I got the Formless event and went to colonize my shiny new Gaia but found I had two Colony Ship designs. I built the first one and found it had no FTL. Thankfully the second did, so I didn't need a shipyard just for the one ship.

 

[turtleturtle111]

Pops will correctly process in or out of Neural Chip state if they are moved to or from the Lathe. (They will not be visible in the Neural Chip job until the monthly tick passes.)

This doesn't appear to be working for hiveminds still. Attaching save. But see screenshot they are still working as maintenance drones.

The Hive Fallen Empire ships are now available for Biological Ship Empires if you progress down the Cosmogenesis Crisis Path.

See later save for ships. All cosmogensis ships lack access to the bottom slot. Weaver/Harbinger have too little Armour slots. Stringer which mirrors titans I guess has too little hull to be doing that and does not have access to the titan auras. Harbinger one is completely broken and unusable see screenshot items are not matching to the correct slots. None seem to work with proginator (IDK if that is an issue with cosmogensis generally BTW have never played proginator).

BTW just a general issue with bio ships L slots are treated as equivalent by power to M slots and X slots as equivalent to 2 m slots but the Juggernaut, Defensive platforms, Citadels and titans don't deal with this making them dramatically weaker then their mechanical counterparts. Also cooldowns on Flak and Ancient Web Slinger (Point-defense archeotech) for bio are incorrect they are set to .75 instead of .50 making them much worse the mechanical versions.

Also BTW IDK when this was done patch wise but you did not document that you patched Progenitor hive to work. Progenitor hive is no longer egregiously broken. I think it may have been patch 4.0.10 that addressed mutagenic spas but it now works with bio ascending and mutagenic spas. Which previously was broken. May want to add a patch note somewhere so people know it works.

 

[turtleturtle111]

O last one I forgot to write. Hive mind's don't have a medical building so they cannot get the full bonus from bio ascending. They need to job efficiency switched to some other building I assume offspring nest.

 

[Falrinn]

Glad to see the Fallen Empire building change was reverted.

While I do think Cosmogenesis and Fallen Empire buildings in general do need looked at and reexamined, it seemed like the changes made since 4.0 dropped were setting more fires instead of putting out fires.

Best leave that for 4.1 or 4.2 when things are hopefully more stable.

 

[Russ555]

Has anyone managed to steal pre ftl pops on the open beta? I have done it since 4.0 but since switching to the beta I cannot get abduct pre FTLs no matter what I try. I have no issue taking other empires pops though.

 

[Zellith]

Is this meant to be a thing? I don't think it's meant to be a thing.

EDIT: And yes. The defense platforms chased my fleets.

 

[Russ555]

Here is a save where raiding primitives isn't working.

 

[Revengeance_oov]

Colony naming will now more often use custom names for the default value

Much appreciated. Actually it would be fantastic if the default colony name were always unchanged from its uncolonized state. I personally always name colonies "[System] [Orbital]" and defaulting everything to "Prime" "Secundus" etc is a small annoyance.