Diocese Bishop

[tuore]

Hey, I bought this game a few weeks ago, and by using a Let's Play video on YouTube and reading AARs, I've learned the game quite fast (on a Paradox scale, that is). However, it seems that I never get any Diocese Bishops for my court. I'm playing as Barcelona, it's 1121 and the last time I had a bishop in the court was somewhere around 1070. Are there any things that increase the chances of Diocese Bishops to arrive? Stewards, Chancellors etc. have many possible courtiers to choose from, but not a single bishop.

 

[TempestDK]

Hey, I bought this game a few weeks ago, and by using a Let's Play video on YouTube and reading AARs, I've learned the game quite fast (on a Paradox scale, that is). However, it seems that I never get any Diocese Bishops for my court. I'm playing as Barcelona, it's 1121 and the last time I had a bishop in the court was somewhere around 1070. Are there any things that increase the chances of Diocese Bishops to arrive? Stewards, Chancellors etc. have many possible courtiers to choose from, but not a single bishop.

Usually events will fire fairly often, offering one of the Pope's crappy henchmen to your court, if you do not have anyone in the Diocese Bishop position.

But you should definitely breed for some ... marry one of women of your dynasty to a courtier and then let some of the kids get the Ecclesiastical education ... ofcourse this can also be done to sons or his sons.

 

[tuore]

I have a 15-year old son who has the trait "Ecclesiastical Education". When he turned 16, I couldn't appoint him as a bishop. Why?

 

[TempestDK]

I have a 15-year old son who has the trait "Ecclesiastical Education". When he turned 16, I couldn't appoint him as a bishop. Why?

His education hasn't finished .... you have to wait until the event fires that gives him his final education trait .

 

[unmerged(80814)]

What does this position in your court influence, if I may butt in?

 

[TempestDK]

What does this position in your court influence, if I may butt in?

It is mostly a trigger for events, as well as influencing MTTH (Mean time to happen) on a whole host of other events.

If you have a really good one with Diplomacy > 7 (I think it is), then he will have a positive effect on the education of any ecclesiastical educated kids in the court

 

[unmerged(133776)]

Are there any things that increase the chances of Diocese Bishops to arrive? Stewards, Chancellors etc. have many possible courtiers to choose from, but not a single bishop.

There is a sneaky 'In-Game' way to bring in a particular DB (or a new Marshall). As long as you have a spare Dynasty female sitting around in your Court, who was BORN in your Court, you can then look around for some poor sod who's getting his behind whooped bad (FE - some rebellious vassal somewhere). Look to see if that court has a good, single Marshall or DB, marry your female to him. When that ruler loses his Realm, his Courtiers scatter to the winds, and since your Dynasty female was born in your Court, she's likely to end up back there, and then her husband will tag along later. If he pops up in another Court, then put the female in an Adviser position for a short while and then he should come trotting over.

It might not always work just when you're in need of one, but it's something to keep an eye out for.

 

[Juggernaut88]

There is something that has always bothered me about diocese bishops and CK; now I'm no expert on religion, but I always thought that when Roman Catholic (or Orthodox) priests or bishops were ordained they had to take a vow of celibacy, and thus could not marry (they were 'married to God').

However CK allows ecclesiastically trained people to marry. I know that historically some bishops did have wives, but could not remarry if they died. Im not suggesting for a second that all clergy were actually celibate (we've all heard tales of popes' having children lol), but they did still claim to be. So is CK wrong in its model of bishops or could you get away with marrying in medieval times?

A bit off topic, but as I said, this has always bothered me.

 

[unmerged(84239)]

There is something that has always bothered me about diocese bishops and CK; now I'm no expert on religion, but I always thought that when Roman Catholic (or Orthodox) priests or bishops were ordained they had to take a vow of celibacy, and thus could not marry (they were 'married to God').

However CK allows ecclesiastically trained people to marry. I know that historically some bishops did have wives, but could not remarry if they died. Im not suggesting for a second that all clergy were actually celibate (we've all heard tales of popes' having children lol), but they did still claim to be. So is CK wrong in its model of bishops or could you get away with marrying in medieval times?

A bit off topic, but as I said, this has always bothered me.

Ecclesiastically trained =/= bishop. Or priest.


There are lots of examples when someone was brought up to be a priest, but ended up something else.
For example the hungarian king 'Koloman I the book-lover' was raised to be a priest (hence his education in sciences, languages, and book-loving) but turned out to be king as his brother was incompetent.

Despite the fact that he was an actual bishop for some time, he declared things what the pope didn't like:
De strigis vero quae non sunt, nulla amplius quaestio fiat
(As for the matter of witches, there is no such thing, therefore no further investigations or trials are to be held.)


There are lots of example of nobles who were sent to abbey's to learn manners, learn latin and the love of god (especially non-firstborns in noble families) who later turned out to be regular nobles, mercs, etc.



Bishops and Archbishops will not marry on their own. You can marry your dicese bishop though, but that is not a serious bug.
(or not a bug at all, if you imagine the court position is a good advisor in church matters, but not an actual priest)

 

[unmerged(80814)]

It is mostly a trigger for events, as well as influencing MTTH (Mean time to happen) on a whole host of other events.

If you have a really good one with Diplomacy > 7 (I think it is), then he will have a positive effect on the education of any ecclesiastical educated kids in the court

Ah I see, thanks!

 

[Hawkeye1489]

There is something that has always bothered me about diocese bishops and CK; now I'm no expert on religion, but I always thought that when Roman Catholic (or Orthodox) priests or bishops were ordained they had to take a vow of celibacy, and thus could not marry (they were 'married to God').

However CK allows ecclesiastically trained people to marry. I know that historically some bishops did have wives, but could not remarry if they died. Im not suggesting for a second that all clergy were actually celibate (we've all heard tales of popes' having children lol), but they did still claim to be. So is CK wrong in its model of bishops or could you get away with marrying in medieval times?

A bit off topic, but as I said, this has always bothered me.

Clerical celebacy wasn't established until the First Lateran Council in 1123 for the Roman Catholic Church. Personally, the "Position" of diocese bishop is off in game and for me, I invision him more as the King's personal Chaplain, especially since Dioceses do not necessarily follow the "provinces" that are on the map. This whole idea (sorry for the off-topic) also leads to a CK2 wish of mine, and thats to fill in a King's "Court" with vassals instead of random courtiers and hangers-on.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Ecclesiastical training simply means they were brought up in the only accepted school of thought available at the time. This is not necessarily saying they were trained to be a priest, but simply that they have been educated; which allows them to become a priest.

 

[gamer42_au]

The orthodox church has always allowed married priests (it still does).

Many parts of the western european church (Catholic in CK) allowed married priests well into the CK period (Diocese of Milan was late in banning them).

Bishops were more likely to be required to be unmarried (or widowers).

Actually, the Catholic church today has married priests - more notably Anglican priests (and occasionally Bishops) who have converted to Catholicism are considered to still be validly ordained, because the Anglican church has maintained apostolic tradition (bishops ordained by bishops in unbroken chain since split from Catholic church in the 1500's).

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Wikipedia says that "eastern churches" also practice clerical celibacy among bishops. But didn't say anything about priests.

It also said that Jerome argued for clerical celibacy, so that gives an idea of how it was viewed as early as the 4th century. 1 Timothy 4:3 might be an indication that 'clerical celibacy' was emerging as a sectional view, as early as the latter half of the 1st century.