Diplomacy VIII: A Song of Smoke and Ink

[reis91]

As aedan pointed out, the large border made the Anglo-German situation very tense.

As for the scenario where Russia doesn't move to Moscow (and let me say that moving A StP - Fin was very hard to refuse as an invitation for Russia to take back Moscow), it still would have been difficult for Russia to hold. They could build F Sev, as you suggested, but it wouldn't be able to make it in time to Anatolia to block us from moving two fleets into Con and Ank, and then it would be a matter of getting the army in Smyrna to Armenia or pushing BLA back (which is to say a 50/50 roll every turn to break the Russian defense).

As for the main front in Galicia and Romania, Russia could have supported you to Vienna with Gal instead of moving it to Rum (and A Sev would go to Rum instead of Moscow) but that would require trusting Austria to move out of Romania into Bulgaria, which would simply trade the gamble that we would leave Vienna to a gamble where we would leave Romania. It is understandable that Russia sought to avoid the risk and therefore risking your move on Vienna. HOWEVER, the Vienna fiasco could have been avoided if Germany supported A Tyr - Vie from Bohemia. With the army in Bud available to cut Tri, this move was 100% guaranteed. That was actually the deciding factor that allowed us to solve the conflict with Austria and eliminate them, rather than Russia's move to Moscow. With German armies in Vienna and Bohemia, Galicia (also known as the Gate to the East) was forfeit in your favor, and Munich could easily be kept safe with a modicum of forces (2 armies, basically, at least until I got to move an army to Bur), while Budapest and Romania would be under a lot of pressure.

So, yes, Germany did strategic mistakes in addition to tactical ones. If you sought to maintain Austria alive you would have one extra unit to stop my advance, and it could have been enough to stall me (at least until we broke through into BLA/Sev - but by then you could have reinforcements if you were successful against Britain).

Then in Winter you threw your hopes of victory out the window by disbanding both Silesia and Burgundy instead of offering the olive branch of disbanding Nth and save one of them from disband (probably Silesia to ensure you could secure Gal). Similarly, Britain not moving into MAO with support from Portugal also ensured we could stem any push they could make into the Med. Shame, I would have enjoyed facing an attempt at a Great Coalition and disappointingly none materialized.

 

[barkardes]

As aedan pointed out, the large border made the Anglo-German situation very tense.

As for the scenario where Russia doesn't move to Moscow (and let me say that moving A StP - Fin was very hard to refuse as an invitation for Russia to take back Moscow), it still would have been difficult for Russia to hold. They could build F Sev, as you suggested, but it wouldn't be able to make it in time to Anatolia to block us from moving two fleets into Con and Ank, and then it would be a matter of getting the army in Smyrna to Armenia or pushing BLA back (which is to say a 50/50 roll every turn to break the Russian defense).

I am going to accept that the move to Finland was early, but not in a sense of preventing Russia from taking Moscow. It was merely a decoy when it came to defending Moscow as I would never dare to move Moscow to prevent a Russian move(considering I wasn't sure if Russia would move there.

I am not going to say that Russia would hold the line easily, but at least he would try that until I managed to break Britain by a miracle, since I had to disband Burgundy because of Moscow, I wasn't able to defeat Britain and come to his help.

And if Russia decided not to take Moscow, that would only change the situtation in the west for the short term. It would become important for the east later on when I get more provinces from Britain, but I think the chance of us stopping you was really slim. Still, it was worth trying.

But the problem wasn't just Russia moving to Moscow, but his whole set of orders were full of problems.

As for the main front in Galicia and Romania, Russia could have supported you to Vienna with Gal instead of moving it to Rum (and A Sev would go to Rum instead of Moscow) but that would require trusting Austria to move out of Romania into Bulgaria, which would simply trade the gamble that we would leave Vienna to a gamble where we would leave Romania. It is understandable that Russia sought to avoid the risk and therefore risking your move on Vienna. HOWEVER, the Vienna fiasco could have been avoided if Germany supported A Tyr - Vie from Bohemia. With the army in Bud available to cut Tri, this move was 100% guaranteed. That was actually the deciding factor that allowed us to solve the conflict with Austria and eliminate them, rather than Russia's move to Moscow. With German armies in Vienna and Bohemia, Galicia (also known as the Gate to the East) was forfeit in your favor, and Munich could easily be kept safe with a modicum of forces (2 armies, basically, at least until I got to move an army to Bur), while Budapest and Romania would be under a lot of pressure.

Yes that was what we thought Russia would do, he choosed to leak you the orders instead.

Excuse me, but wasn't your army at Romania on that said turn? The only thing he had do was to attack and take Romania, no further things needed.

I know that it was guaranteed if I supported Austria to Vienna, but I was counting on the fact that you wouldn't know our moves, so you wouldn't risk a move to Galicia, and Russia wouldn't betray us in that turn. But Russia had his meaningless betray on us, while providing you our order set.

Actually, I wasn't the one who created the plan, it was Russia. I had an exam to study for so I didn't really put much thought into it, in the last minute before having the exam, I saw some bad ways of it but didn't have the time to correct them.

So, yes, Germany did strategic mistakes in addition to tactical ones. If you sought to maintain Austria alive you would have one extra unit to stop my advance, and it could have been enough to stall me (at least until we broke through into BLA/Sev - but by then you could have reinforcements if you were successful against Britain).

Well, my choices were the best choices considering the circumstances, not tactically but strategically. I wouldn't really have thought that Russia would have such a pointless move. I expected Russia to betray us in 2-3 years. But at that time, it was pointless.

Also, I don't think we are using the word "strategy" in the same meaning. When I say strategy, I mean the things that shape your moves. "Do I attack Italy?" "Do I take the empty province of Warsaw? What would happen if I did it?" Or on a larger scale, "Who is my ally?", "Should I trust Germany","Where should I prioritize first? ... Those are all questions regarding strategy. Tactics however, how you put your strategy into action. That's how I understand it.

Still, I may have had minor mistakes in the strategies of mine(For example, the move to Sweden was a little bit early.) But in the bigger picture, I believe my strategies were correct in critical moves of mine, given the circumstances I made those decisions.

Then in Winter you threw your hopes of victory out the window by disbanding both Silesia and Burgundy instead of offering the olive branch of disbanding Nth and save one of them from disband (probably Silesia to ensure you could secure Gal). Similarly, Britain not moving into MAO with support from Portugal also ensured we could stem any push they could make into the Med. Shame, I would have enjoyed facing an attempt at a Great Coalition and disappointingly none materialized.

At that point, I didn't think England was going to attack you disregarding any gesture I would do, because he continued attacking me after the gestures I made to him ago. I needed guarantee from him. He wouldn't attack me, and I would disband North Sea. Also, I sent a message to him one turn earlier and he didn't even respond to it. So I, at those circumstances, considered the game lost and concentrated on not losing more provinces, and my newly found hobby to prevent border gore.

 

[reis91]

Excuse me, but wasn't your army at Romania on that said turn? The only thing he had do was to attack and take Romania, no further things needed.

It was. But he could either gamble on me moving to Bul to disband the Austrians there (a fair possibility) or ensure that they got into Rum by supporting from Gal. In either case, you did not need A Gal to get Austria's A Tyr into Vienna.

I know that it was guaranteed if I supported Austria to Vienna, but I was counting on the fact that you wouldn't know our moves, so you wouldn't risk a move to Galicia, and Russia wouldn't betray us in that turn. But Russia had his meaningless betray on us, while providing you our order set.

I didn't go to Galicia (no reason to go there regardless of the Russian moves). What I did risk was Austria moving A Tyr - Tri, but it was an acceptable risk knowing that Austria faced elimination. Russia did leak moves but we had no way of knowing he was speaking truthfully (beyond the obvious moves) or if he was being deceived by Austria and Germany.

Actually, I wasn't the one who created the plan, it was Russia. I had an exam to study for so I didn't really put much thought into it, in the last minute before having the exam, I saw some bad ways of it but didn't have the time to correct them.

Well, like you, Russia also wanted Austria gone, and I believe they intended for your move to Vienna to succeed to keep us from getting too much out of Austria. We did try to make Russia believe we were going to order A Vie - Bud by saying we considered Vienna to be untenable. If they knew about A Tri - Bud being a possibility they might have acted differently.

Also, I don't think we are using the word "strategy" in the same meaning. When I say strategy, I mean the things that shape your moves. "Do I attack Italy?" "Do I take the empty province of Warsaw? What would happen if I did it?" Or on a larger scale, "Who is my ally?", "Should I trust Germany","Where should I prioritize first? ... Those are all questions regarding strategy. Tactics however, how you put your strategy into action. That's how I understand it.

By tactics I mean the actual moves that secure the objectives established in your strategy. By strategy I mean the establishment of objectives and their respective priorities. By diplomacy, I mean the communication (verbal and non-verbal) that helps secure strategic goals.

With a concrete example, our lategame strategy to deal with Russia involved breaking into BLA and forcing our way into Sev and Rum. Our diplomacy for that was trying to get Russia to move A Rum to Galicia (as we had an infallible way of taking Rum despite support from Sev - but it would sacrifice the speed of our Anatolian strategy execution. Our tactics involved convoying an army into Smyrna and moving fleets into Ank and Con.

 

[barkardes]

It was. But he could either gamble on me moving to Bul to disband the Austrians there (a fair possibility) or ensure that they got into Rum by supporting from Gal. In either case, you did not need A Gal to get Austria's A Tyr into Vienna.

I thought that you wouldn't want to move to Galicia, no matter what. So I didn't think of another possibility. I thought that Russia was cooperating with us, as he should have done for the best of his nation. So a move to Triest would already make the move possible, Tyrol could be used elsewhere. We directed it to Venice and hoped that you wouldn't go there. To increase the likelyhood, we told Turkey the wrong moveset(complete opposite of our planned one) and hoped that he would pass the info to you. We thought he could maybe do that because he indirectly supported you to Constantinople by doing nothing. It's not that we believed it would happen, but it was just trying it.

I didn't go to Galicia (no reason to go there regardless of the Russian moves). What I did risk was Austria moving A Tyr - Tri, but it was an acceptable risk knowing that Austria faced elimination. Russia did leak moves but we had no way of knowing he was speaking truthfully (beyond the obvious moves) or if he was being deceived by Austria and Germany.

Regardless of the fact that Russia leaking the orders, his moves completely destroyed us.

Well, like you, Russia also wanted Austria gone, and I believe they intended for your move to Vienna to succeed to keep us from getting too much out of Austria. We did try to make Russia believe we were going to order A Vie - Bud by saying we considered Vienna to be untenable. If they knew about A Tri - Bud being a possibility they might have acted differently.

No, I didn't want Austria to be gone. I am gonna accept that 2 nations instead of 3 would let me keep the balance in the region easier, but it would make an alliance against me decided easier when I made gains against Britain.

If they wanted it to succeed I'm sure that they would support it.It was a low possibility for me to take it without resistance.

By tactics I mean the actual moves that secure the objectives established in your strategy. By strategy I mean the establishment of objectives and their respective priorities. By diplomacy, I mean the communication (verbal and non-verbal) that helps secure strategic goals.

With a concrete example, our lategame strategy to deal with Russia involved breaking into BLA and forcing our way into Sev and Rum. Our diplomacy for that was trying to get Russia to move A Rum to Galicia (as we had an infallible way of taking Rum despite support from Sev - but it would sacrifice the speed of our Anatolian strategy execution. Our tactics involved convoying an army into Smyrna and moving fleets into Ank and Con

Close to how I see it. But I think there was no point about my strategies in the pharagraph before, and it was all about tactics, I think?.

Don't get me wrong, I am just confused about it.

 

[TheExecuter]

I'll just note here that by this point I knew Russia didn't want me alive...and Italy needed me dead.

Without sure support from Germany and Russia, I was going down. Even with German only support, I was still going down in a slower way...and Germany had divided priorities.

 

[EUROO7]

I hope everyone learned a valuable lesson here. Trust the Portuguese at your peril.

 

[PanzerCorps]

The madness continues in a new installment! Click for more diplomacy!