discuss:how to make little countries' servive easier in mod?

[unmerged(95405)]

I am making a mod there are many little countries with 1 or 2 provinces. But they are so easy to be annexed by large empires. How to make them servive easier?

I thought out some:

1. annex limit change to 1 province

2. Make little countries independence events when they not exists

3. Make mission to vassal when a country has just one province.

What about more?

 

[Slavick3000]

I believe there is a mod that makes the base tax income for land provinces 50% (static_modifiers.txt I believe) and makes the ruler title add +50% tax income as governor. This would make one-province and one-region nations much stronger. You could probably do the same thing with manpower.

 

[Wilsonrtf]

I like ideas 2 and 3. Idea 1 seems bad, though. Very bad.

 

[Fu.Th.Sy.]

I usually add this to triggered modifiers. It is for single province AI only.

1_province = {
trigger = {
ai = yes
num_of_cities = 1
NOT = {
num_of_cities = 2
}
}
stability_cost_modifier = -0.50
global_tax_modifier = 0.65
global_manpower_modifier = 1.5
land_forcelimit_modifier = 1.0
land_morale = 0.15
maintenance_cost = -0.30
trade_income_modifier = 0.65
icon = 3
}

 

[Lofman]

One thing to keep in mind is the population, both the total population and how it is distributed between citizens/freemen/slaves. Having a decent population with a decent proportion of slaves is important as it will allow the minor the actually afford some sort of army which will be helpful.

Changing annex limit is a good idea, but keep in mind the overall setup, you may for example want it to be possible for Rome to conquer all of Magna Graecia in their initial war, which if the annex limit is 1 requires (assuming unchanged map) either splitting Magna Graecia into two countries or giving its provinces directly to Epirus. It can be worth keeping in mind that if the only province the aggressive major borders is the capital and the second province is an inland province, then they will be content to just get tribute from them.

Diplomatic situation will help, if they can find reasonably powerful allies (or allies that have powerful allies themselves thanks to cascading alliances) they tend to survive for a fair bit, if they don't they tend to get conquered. Is not easy to predict wether a minor will tend to have decent alliances or not though (although religion and culture obviously plays a very large part).

Basically that are the only thing really done in my mod with regards to minor survivability and it works reasonably well (although the annex limit is not so much changed to 1 as never updated to 2. Also it is not as if the minors survive indefinitely, they tend to get conquered eventually).

 

[AndrewT]

The OP will need to register Rome or Rome Gold here in order to post further in this thread.

 

[Cheexsta]

I think part of the problem is that it's too easy for a blob to retain overall stability. Once you've conquered a few provinces, they essentially become yours for the whole game. Revolts typically take too long to result in emergent countries, and most of the provinces in the game don't have cores for emergent countries to use (I know the game defaults to creating a regional country, but that also has problems).

IMHO, giving little countries all sorts of bonuses feels to me like an artificial treatment of symptoms instead of fixing the core of the problem. That said, in some ways they can be seen as a necessary beast.

So, some things I'm thinking about in a mod that I'm working on:

1. Every province should have an "emergent country" core.
2. Introduce overextension penalties tied to government efficiency (ruler capability, laws, stability, number of provinces).
3. Have events that can force provinces to defect if stability is too low.

We'll see how well that works

 

[Wave]

I think part of the problem is that it's too easy for a blob to retain overall stability. Once you've conquered a few provinces, they essentially become yours for the whole game. Revolts typically take too long to result

This is right, especially when you get used to playing with high revolt risks you'll have no problems with revolts as you know how to treat them. For AI this is even easier as they can think everything at the same time and AI nations usually field almost double amount of men than their support limits allow so they'll have enough armies to work out problems.

About the question of surviving as a minor:
If I know correctly there is some modifier like num_of_provinces = x and using it could help. If you have minor, less than 4 provinces or something, you could get double taxes, double forcelimits and a manpower boost. BSFA mod (link in my signature) gives the two last to tribes to help fight against Rome and Carthage and it actually seems to help as their armies aren't limited to 5 units anymore.

 

[Cheexsta]

Here's a quick and dirty set of triggered modifiers that only take into account country size and ruler finesse. Feel free to try them out and let me know how they go.

#Government Efficiency
#Country size tiers:
#1-2 = tiny country
#3-4 = small country
#5-9 = medium country
#10-15 = large country
#16+ = huge country
gov_inefficient = {
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			AND = {
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 3 }
				NOT = { 
					ruler = { finesse = 1 }
				}
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 3
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 5 }
				NOT = { 
					ruler = { finesse = 1 }
				}
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 5
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 10 }
				NOT = { 
					ruler = { finesse = 2 }
				}
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 10
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 16 }
				NOT = { 
					ruler = { finesse = 4 }
				}
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 16
				NOT = { 
					ruler = { finesse = 6 }
				}
			}
		}
	}
	global_tax_modifier = -0.25
	global_manpower_modifier = -0.25
	stability_cost = 0.25
	icon = 2
}

gov_efficient = {
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			AND = {
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 3 }
				ruler = { finesse = 3 }
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 3
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 5 }
				ruler = { finesse = 5 }
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 5
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 10 }
				ruler = { finesse = 7 }
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 10
				NOT = { num_of_cities = 16 }
				ruler = { finesse = 9 }
			}
			AND = {
				num_of_cities = 16
				ruler = { finesse = 11 }
			}
		}
	}
	global_tax_modifier = 0.25
	global_manpower_modifier = 0.25
	stability_cost = -0.25
	icon = 1
}

Basically, there are two modifiers: Efficient Government and Inefficient Government. The more provinces your country has, the higher your ruler's finesse skill needs to be in order to keep the country from being inefficient, and the harder it is to have an especially efficient government.

There's also the possibility of adding stability and laws as further triggers, so that the player still has some kind of control over whether this happens or not.

 

[Wave]

What an epic idea Cheexta! I guess that I'll find some use for it
This sounds like a good way to make it but (as it historically always did) child rulers are about to get screwed up alot with their lack of finesse.. Just give some revolt risk modifier to this and imagine Seleucids after first anthiochus dies and some kid is king.. Uhh wet dreams :rofl:

And if allowed to go bit off-topic, I had an idea about making this same system (actually in EU3) but using government types, undeveloped government where all countries start from which gave some penalties, then regular government with some bonuses and way supreme compared to undeveloped and finally highly developed government which gives major bonuses to almost everything and thus is supreme to both others. Admittedly the base idea came from y1kdcb5au9rqw's Mare Nostrvm mod

 

[UniversalWolf]

Just brainstorming here, so I'm not even sure this is workable, but I would make it impossible to annex any country that still has an army in the field - especially if the general is the monarch.

 

[Borne2Run]

But then you might have to chase down a small rag-tag group to annex the country. If the capital is occupied and they have a superior force, then usually the country refuses to surrender (in my experience).

 

[Wave]

If you're one province minor and enemy army is sieging capital after you've occupied their capital they can reject annexation. Not sure does this work with bigger nations too.