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chatnoir17

CK2 NMIH Project Lead
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Sep 17, 2009
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I have post this thread mainly for the development of my mod :), but also for giving this forum some life points.

In the other threads I have seen many requests about the improvement of this game, but the most of them are very abstract. Some people pointed out that Sengoku is CK2 Alpha, but they didn't clarify which part is lacking in Sengoku. Others requests the features of CK2, but didn't tell which part of the newest game of Paradox would be implemented into this Japanese game. Precise suggestions are quite important since we can't simply transport the mechanics of CK2 to Sengoku.


I think Sengoku lacks two aspects which could be better just with modding or hopefully patchs/expansions.
1. The depth in the middle game
Although the aim of the game is the world conquest and you have to own just over 50% of Japan, the phase with 20-30 % lacks the depth. All the players needs is being careful with the relation with his vassals and the neighbors and avoiding to be their plot target. I think this phase could have more challenging with internal and external affairs, and some important decisions should be done if the player want to expand more.

2. The playability as a vassal
In the current status, the action of the vassal is quite limited. I think it is basically OK, but there could be more ways for the vassals. Some kind of faction system in CK2 would be achieved with events and decisions.


These two elements are the most important things to me. What do you think about these aspects, or do you have other points which can make Sengoku better? Any deep opinion is welcome.
 
A couple things I'd love to see:

1) Alliances. There were instances of clans allying with one another, so this wouldn't be crazy. It would be nice if, while playing Takeda, I could ally with Imigawa, say, to preempt a Uesugi attack -- attack me and you'll face a combined force of two clans, instead of just one.

2) More ninja missions. One that comes to mind would be to undermine the relationship between two clans. For instance, if I'm Takeda again, I could send ninja to undermine the relationship between Imigawa and Ogasawara, potentially starting a war between the two if things get bad enough. Or, I could undermine the relationship between myself (Takeda) and Imigawa, so that I could have the pretense to declare war with a reduced cost to honor. Another ninja mission could be to sabotage military installations, slowing levy reinforce speed or army movement or army strength or army morale or something else.

Little things like this would make it seem like there's more stuff to do and more possibilities. I've never modded before, though, so I have no idea if these are little things or how hard things like this would be to implement.

Love your MIH mod, by the way. Awesome job!
 
Nice thread idea and many thanks for your excellent mod :)

I fully agree with Sigmarsson on the alliance idea , even though we have the hostages system which is realistic but incomplete since many treaties were signed between clans during Sengoku , although it's true that verbal agreement between leaders and marital ties were much more common ( Asai-Asakura , Oda-Tokugawa , Mori-Kikkawa etc ) and reliable whereas alliances signed were usually temporary and weaker ( hence the need to sign a treaty in the first place )

Ok , my suggestions would concern mainly the military aspect , cause i'm not sure the other changes i would like to see could be done through modding (ie : introducing population count and growth ) and i want to precise that i've got no idea what is possible or not through modding so pardon me if i suggest foolish things that can't be done

1) I'd like to see Retinue having an experience rating , meaning everytime they win a battle , they get a mulitplier that will make them stronger to beat . Ideally , i'd love to have the possibility to set an ambush , but this is probably impossible to implement through modding as army movement on the map is probably hardcoded .

In any case , i'd want retinue to gain xp because as we know , many battles during Sengoku Jidai were won by the side who had the best knowledge of the terrain/enemy's location and weaknesses/had the better leaders and hardened men but not necessarily by the side who had the most men , but in this game i noticed it's very difficult to win battles against numerical odds even though rivers and straits give some bonuses and the general's military rating has some influence , but i think it would be more interesting if the retinues and levies that were not disbanded (to simulate the increasing professionalisation of ashigarus post 1570's ) would get increased battle effectiveness as they become experienced which would allow smaller clans to have more of a fighting chance against larger clans and would depict the fact that not all armies were equal as the value of the soldiers and the men who lead them and their experience was precious during that period , so i thought that if the military rating of generals had more influence on the battles outcome than currently , and if troops could get experience and increased effectiveness , it would make the military aspect more complex and credible


2) I don't know if this can be done really , i suppose many suggested it before , but really , armies should not be able to walk around freely and violate a neutral's clan territory in order to reach their target , as this in real life would cause much devastation and plunders and/or is basically an act of war unless military access has been granted (usually through an alliance ) , that's why i like the idea of having alliances (which would allow military access ) . But again this may not be possible to mod , perhaps it's hard coded that an army can walk around freely anywhere

3) A new Master slot , for a "Gunshi" , military strategist , that you can use for the 3 following actions :

- can be put in a province to scout the terrain or prepare the defences which depending on his military rating can take some time , but if he succeeds in his mission overtime , it will give a bonus to your army in case of a battle in this particular region during one month
- can be put in a province to strengthen the castle defense , then after some time (say one month ) it would allow the castle to hold for longer and cause greater attrition to the attacking force that would attack this specific province during the next 3 months or so
- can be put in a province during a siege to help shorten it , based on his military rating

this new agent would basically give more options to even the numerical odds or maximize one's advantage during military campaigns

4) Sieging a large castle should cost money after some time (say 2 months ) , as it simply should not be possible for a clan with a negative income to lay a long siege of a major castle in a foreign kuni (which would usually be defended by several smaller forts around it so you had to take them as well ) as this in real life required comprehensive logistic efforts and ressources to defend the supply lines and supply the army itself in enemy territory once the initial food provisions are depleted (which is also an investment initially ) . I think such a feature would limit lightning speed expansions and would make the largest castles a force to be reckoned with as it was in real life (when we think of Odawara or Odani castle or the fortified city of Ichijodani , those places needed huge investment in men and money to be taken )

5) linked to the previous , the ability to hire thieves and mercenaries in enemy territory with your master of the arms , cause as far i as tested , it seems the function " hire ronins" is kind of useless as i often have the "ronin" event without ever using my master of the arms to look for them , however we know that during the Sengoku period , Takeda Shingen during his campaign in Shinano , Oda Nobunaga during his conquest of Mino in the 1560's or for instance Mori Motonari in his war against the Sue , used mercenary troops , mainly bandits and men for hire bribed in enemy territory or in the Mori case , pirates .

I think this could be interesting because they could be used during a campaign to increase temporarily your army's size directly in enemy territory , whereas currently , ronins are recruited in your provinces , they would make up the numbers for sieges but would have a low battle effectiveness in a field battle , say low morale in game terms . Ideally being able to bribe enemy troops would be nice , but not sure it's feasible in the game , perhaps could be a ninja action .


Regarding the playability as a vassal (its important to me cause i almost always play as a "character" , so a basic kokujin initally ) , i think Sigmarsson suggestions of giving more ninja actions to undermine relationships between clans , and relationships between yourself and the clan leader and other clans would be great , it would give us more options to influence what's happening around us . I think it would be nice if vassals who have bad relationships with their liege would plot more often as well . Sry for the long post :)
 
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