Do we agree big Khanates need to have less stability? How to solve it?

[henriqueb1]

Far from being the exciting no-man's land that the steppes are meant to be, it's all just one, maybe two man's land. There's a real shortage of steppe real state, which makes smaller Khans starved and unable to challenge the big dogs. This turns the steppe into a boring, static, blob. There's no way in hell the starved AI is shaking things up.

Nerfing the current big dogs is not a solution. Eventually someone will establish themselves and blob. There should exist many more independent medium Khanates, to challenge the hegemonity of the big dogs, and give something for the small Khans to punch.

Do people here agree?

I'm thinking there should be constant changing of borders, and I think the only solution for that is decently powerful vassals trying often to either take over the Khanate, become independent, or dismantle the Realm. Disobedient vassals should be looking for every oportunity to take down the big dog or at least get independence. Even obedient vassals should look out for moments of weakness depending on personality. I guess it would be no problem for the player, but it would make the steppes more dynamic for the AI.

What are your suggestions?

 

[aadf97799c]

the antagonistic succession could work

if vassal can faction and plot their way into one of the 4 seet and force the realm to splinter

 

[henriqueb1]

You mean the Kurultais? Yeah, that could work. But I'm not talking about a player infiltrating a big realm and sabotaging it from the inside, a player will break the big Khanate one way or another. The AI needs to be able to not necessarily break them, but at least keep them in check.

 

[LAF1994]

It's worth pointing out that historically the Steppes in this period (pre-Mongols) were dominated by a couple of big 'blobs'; first the Khazars and the Kimek-Kipchak confederation and later the Cuman-Kipchak confederation.

 

[ray243]

I think we need a way where you can have multiple small tribes on the same county like landless adventurer sharing space in same province.

But what we really need is to make nomadic groups more based around manpower than land. It's more about how many people you can ensure stays with you as you migrate around.

Right now, there's not that much migrating all over the steppes.

 

[Brikz159]

...it's all just one, maybe two man's land.

Have you tried lesser or extreme lesser realm stability? Increase conqueror frequency, religion/culture conversion speed set to lowest could all potentially make the steppe a permanent warzone. Throw in the game rule that targets people of note and you have a constant bloodbath.

I'm thinking there should be constant changing of borders, and I think the only solution for that is decently powerful vassals trying often to either take over the Khanate, become independent, or dismantle the Realm. Disobedient vassals should be looking for every oportunity to take down the big dog or at least get independence. Even obedient vassals should look out for moments of weakness depending on personality. I guess it would be no problem for the player, but it would make the steppes more dynamic for the AI.

Definitely look at the game rule for 'realm stability' and set it to the lowest setting. Lots of game rules so it can be a little tricky to find but it does exactly this.

 

[henriqueb1]

It's worth pointing out that historically the Steppes in this period (pre-Mongols) were dominated by a couple of big 'blobs'; first the Khazars and the Kimek-Kipchak confederation and later the Cuman-Kipchak confederation.

Sure, there has always been a big dog on the steppes. But since it's so boring to play on the steppes right now (though I guess people disagree it is), and we don't really know historically how stable their borders were, I think there's plenty of room, historically speaking, to make them less hegemonic, and make the game more fun.

I think we need a way where you can have multiple small tribes on the same county like landless adventurer sharing space in same province.

But what we really need is to make nomadic groups more based around manpower than land. It's more about how many people you can ensure stays with you as you migrate around.

Right now, there's not that much migrating all over the steppes.

Making nomads more based on manpower and not land is a great idea. That might make things more dynamic. I guess the thing here is to make herd growth less dependent on land. That might just be the solution. Prestige should be more important.

Have you tried lesser or extreme lesser realm stability? Increase conqueror frequency, religion/culture conversion speed set to lowest could all potentially make the steppe a permanent warzone. Throw in the game rule that targets people of note and you have a constant bloodbath.

Definitely look at the game rule for 'realm stability' and set it to the lowest setting. Lots of game rules so it can be a little tricky to find but it does exactly this.

I'll say I had forgotten about enabling this game rule. I used to always play with it. I'll have to try another game. Here I go again on the slow rise from 1 dominance.

 

[non-entity]

Have you tried lesser or extreme lesser realm stability? Increase conqueror frequency, religion/culture conversion speed set to lowest could all potentially make the steppe a permanent warzone. Throw in the game rule that targets people of note and you have a constant bloodbath.




Definitely look at the game rule for 'realm stability' and set it to the lowest setting. Lots of game rules so it can be a little tricky to find but it does exactly this.

Problem is, I want to nerf nomads and admin, but not fuedal or clan. With the last two DLCs, I've been watching thevAI cautiously and fuedals and clans fall far behind. The balance between tribal and fuedal/clan felt bearable IMO, but the byzantine and nomads are ridiculous right now.

 

[Slime99]

Well to be fair the Cumans shouldn't be united, it says as much on the wikipedia article. And Khazars hold a bit more land than they should. And the Khazars were rather weak at this time, and would eventually crumble just 100 years after game start from the invasion of the Kievan Rus' in 965.

 

[andersonm]

The chaos should happen during succession, almost every time a Khan died you had sons, uncles, nephews, coming out of the woodwork to claim the title. Someone from the ruling dynasty would almost always prevail but it often wasn't the "designated" heir. I also think that it should be possible for nomads to essentially white peace a civil war. Basically, you keep your area, I keep mine but you each have strong claims. This happened pretty frequently which led to fragmentation (sometimes later re-integration) and added a lot instability.

Even seemingly integrated Khanates to the outside were actually internally divided like the Golden Horde with it's Blue Horde & White Horde components, they were essentially independent for a long time, often worked together (dual Khans), but also warred with each other. Not entirely sure how all that could be modeled though.

 

[ray243]

The chaos should happen during succession, almost every time a Khan died you had sons, uncles, nephews, coming out of the woodwork to claim the title. Someone from the ruling dynasty would almost always prevail but it often wasn't the "designated" heir. I also think that it should be possible for nomads to essentially white peace a civil war. Basically, you keep your area, I keep mine but you each have strong claims. This happened pretty frequently which led to fragmentation (sometimes later re-integration) and added a lot instability.

Even seemingly integrated Khanates to the outside were actually internally divided like the Golden Horde with it's Blue Horde & White Horde components, they were essentially independent for a long time, often worked together (dual Khans), but also warred with each other. Not entirely sure how all that could be modeled though.

You need a big nomad government rework in that you can have khanate system that's based on empire tier titles under a hegemonic tier title.

Then your tumen/ordu organisation for your nomad armies where a khan's power is not based on just land and herd but have specific amount of troops/followers under them as well.