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Does "Badboy" Ever Go Away?

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I'm playing the ICG as Russia with a couple of other people. We get together a couple of nights a week to play over a LAN. The game started great. I vassalized Ryazan and Pskov and forcibly annexed Kazan, the Golden Hoard, and Sibir (which conveniently was in a war with Uzbekistan). I then got an early explorer and took out Uzbekistan to clear the way east. The problem is I guess I'm now a "badboy" as my relations with Poland-Lithuania, Persia, Turkey, Sweden, Denmark, and virtually everyone else is at -200. I'm being constantly attacked by these countries, and although they insist on attacking Russia in the winter (never a good idea) I'm slowly being ground down and don't have the money I'd like to spend on infrastructure improvements and technology. Does badboy ever wear off or am I doomed to fighting these guys forever? I should add that I usually get reasonable peace treaties from these powers after their armies are attrited down, but then five years later they're at it again.

It's about 1530, by the way.

Thanks for any help.
 
Yes your BB value will go down over time (during peace time of course). I don't kmow the exact slope of the BB when you are at peace but someone here does...maybe one of the FAQ sections do. Also do you own any provinces that your enemy think it's rightfully theirs? That will bring on a war or two. Also colonize (for non-violent expansion puposes) and give money to reduce the chance of somone declaring war on you.
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the info on how quickly Bad Boy drops. Do you have the figures for how much it increases for specific actions, especially annexation?
 
Originally posted by Peter The Great
I'm slowly being ground down and don't have the money I'd like to spend on infrastructure improvements and technology. Does badboy ever wear off or am I doomed to fighting these guys forever?
Click to expand...

I'm playing Russia too and it's about 1540. I'm in my third war with the rest of Eastern Europe, with Crimea and Turkey thrown in the alliance against me for fun. I have a BB rating of 26 and nearly every state in the game has a -200 rating against me. These wars never seem to cease, and it's hurting my research -not to mention the economy badly. So badly, that I'm losing battles against the cursed Swedes ;) all the time (the last battle I lost was with a 45k army against 16k Swede army #$%!). Usually I can hold my piece in these wars, but when Pol-Lithuania is in a war against you (in alliance with Hansa League and other minor powers), you know you're going to have to wipe the sweat from your eyebrows.
In this last war I'm fighting, Crimea and Turkey were the last ones to join the Holy war against Russia and this became almost too much.

What drove me to shut down my computer in anger and disgust, was the announcement that I had some kind of political crisis on my hands. Suddenly, I was not only fighting a fight-for-your-life wars on all fronts, but also had a -3 stability factor on my hands. Sure enough my muslim provinces started to rebel...

I'm not sure when I will dare to start that game again...:)
 
Originally posted by Bouclier


I'm playing Russia too and it's about 1540. I'm in my third war with the rest of Eastern Europe, with Crimea and Turkey thrown in the alliance against me for fun. I have a BB rating of 26 and nearly every state in the game has a -200 rating against me. These wars never seem to cease, and it's hurting my research -not to mention the economy badly. So badly, that I'm losing battles against the cursed Swedes ;) all the time (the last battle I lost was with a 45k army against 16k Swede army #$%!). Usually I can hold my piece in these wars, but when Pol-Lithuania is in a war against you (in alliance with Hansa League and other minor powers), you know you're going to have to wipe the sweat from your eyebrows.
In this last war I'm fighting, Crimea and Turkey were the last ones to join the Holy war against Russia and this became almost too much.

What drove me to shut down my computer in anger and disgust, was the announcement that I had some kind of political crisis on my hands. Suddenly, I was not only fighting a fight-for-your-life wars on all fronts, but also had a -3 stability factor on my hands. Sure enough my muslim provinces started to rebel...

I'm not sure when I will dare to start that game again...:)
Click to expand...

I'm in 1738 with mine (on normal/normal). I was attacked exactly once, by Poland and Sweden, early in the game. Turkey has shared a border with me for a very long time but has never attacked. Many countries (but not all, certainly) have -200 with me, but they don't attack me. I had my provinces fully developed very early on. When I attack other countries I can go on calmly without getting revolutions, and other countries don't join in against me. My provinces rarely rebel. I've always had enough money. I have allies that don't hate me, Denmark is my vassal, and although a few of the majors are starting to hate me pretty bad (because I took their colonies away), they leave me alone, and I can still do royal marriages with most of them. If I want to improve relations with a country, I can dump money on it, and their opinion of me won't drop very quickly.

I believe that the secret to playing Russia without having everyone hate you is to go slow. Conquer a hoard, then wait. A long time. Like 20 years. During the wait, build up your army, improve your provinces, and calmly put down the occasional peasant uprising. Capture Ingermanland after the first hoard and use the one settler per year to build up your three colonies -- they turn into nice cities. When your BB goes down, take another hoard. Don't do things that make your BB go up -- it's very easy to fall into the trap of taking just one more bite out of Poland, but I think it is better to go slow. I don't think I attacked Poland or Sweden before 1550.

Don't think that you need to use the conquistador you start with to explore Siberia. You can wait until 1550 or so with no particular problem.

Historically, Russia conquered the hoards in the reign of Ivan the Terrible, which started in 1547, and didn't get into Siberia until the 1580's, according to my encyclopedia. You can go at this speed and still have plenty of time to get all the way through Siberia, colonize a big chunk of the world, and win easily, all without having problems caused by having a BB of 20 or 30. It's much easier to operate when your BB is 4 or 5.

bruce
 
Bruce: a very good post! It seemes like the people that complain about high bb while playing Russia annexed all hordes in the first 10-20 years or so. No wonder you get a bb then...
 
The problem with Russia is that Russia can make a choice to be extremely violent right at the start, and many players think that this is the only choice, because they see how the world reacts when you eat all the khanates immediately, and think that the world will react the same way if you don't. It is not the only choice. You get to the same place eventually, but you don't have to surrender the aspects of the game that are not available if you are constantly on the receiving end of world war.

bruce
 
It's nice to see I have been the only one makin the "starvin mans mistake" as I call it.

Playin as Turkey (same principle applies to them as to Russia - lots to tempt you early re conquering).

Anyway, after reading several Turkey threads I became the incarnation of Suliman himself and became obsessed w/the immediate and permanent expansion of the great Ottoman empire to the South - a holy jihad to unite all the muslims so to speak - all by 1510... what the hell was I thinking!!

So, marched against the Mamalukes - conquered and annexed w/in 2 years... waited 2 years, got impatient, greedy and overconfident and marched against Persia - of course my allies all abandoned me. Allies, we don't need no stinkin allies - Persia falls - the dream is realized for a grand total of 3 years - then WHAM - the entire world jumps on me. Badboy rating?? 48... the wars I could handle but the revolving wars take its toll.

I felt like a wrestler in a handicap match - 1st 5 years vs. P/L & friends, next 5 vs. A/H & friends, next 5 vs. whoever is left, wash, rinse, repeat...

Then comes the revolts - war exhaustion SUCKS!!! I lost ALL my recently conquered territory - persia arose from the ashes and boy was she pissed...

Finally after 20 years of constant war, fully 2/3 of my empire in revolts and my cats learning new and fairly descriptive ways to refer to a computer program in a derogatoryi manner, I packed up what remained of the Turkish treasury and snuck out by the back door.

The moral of this story - Be Patient. Be afraid of the War Exhaustion (esp in newly conquered territories). And avoid the "Starvin Mans Mistake" - don't eat it all at once just b/c you think you can keep it down - you can't.

Whether w/Russia, Turkey or Helvetia - the same rules apply.

ps. my second attempt at Turkey is goin much better - BB only 14 after annexing Mamelukes - they are just soooo damn easy to take and it makes the pol map soooo much more attractive w/the Turkish green wrappin around the Western Med like that...
 
Originally posted by WhiteHojo

The moral of this story - Be Patient. Be afraid of the War Exhaustion (esp in newly conquered territories). And avoid the "Starvin Mans Mistake" - don't eat it all at once just b/c you think you can keep it down - you can't.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Be patient. As Turkey I could conquer the Mameluks at the start. Then I had to wait 50 years to conquer Persia. After that I concentrated on colonisation (also because I got a conquistador).
Now (1630) I have a reasonable BB-rating (between 10 and 15), noone attacks me, no rebellion, and although I have bad relations with most of the countries in Europe, I could get a military alliance with Spain and Austria and extremely good relations with Spain. How is that for a muslim.
 
Playing Turkey I annexed Persia and the Mamalukes by 1515, and have diplo-annexed the Hedjuz (sp?) and liberated Ragusa from Venice. (I am in the process of diplo-annexing Iraq right now) My relationships with all non-Muslim countries is -200 and I have a BB rating of around 44 (next highest is France at 11), but no one has attacked me for ~25 years. I think it is because I have keep a large contingent of troops (~100K total) in my provinces that border the Eastern European nations. Is it generally true, that you can deter DoW's on your nation when you have a high BB this way?
As a test I tried attacking Georgia, and although they are not in an alliance with anyone, almost all the East European nations declared war on me. The problem is I have 2 good leaders right now and no way to use them, since I think I would get decimated by the forces allied against me.

-jim
 
Originally posted by cepheus1122
...no one has attacked me for ~25 years. I think it is because I have keep a large contingent of troops (~100K total) in my provinces that border the Eastern European nations. Is it generally true, that you can deter DoW's on your nation when you have a high BB this way?
As a test I tried attacking Georgia, and although they are not in an alliance with anyone, almost all the East European nations declared war on me. The problem is I have 2 good leaders right now and no way to use them, since I think I would get decimated by the forces allied against me.
Click to expand...

Consider yourself blessed by Alah young man. I found that it was not the Damned European christians that 1st went to war w/Turkey after the Mameluke/Persia conquest but the blasted little nation to the North of Persia who started the "Jump on Turkey" fest - soon to be joined by the rest of the world.

And I've found that havin a large standing army will deter the world (somewhat) from 1st jumpin on ya, but it will not matter at all once the 1st stone is thrown. I even had little Scottland march into my Turkish territory at one point. Also, it's not so much the external enemies that bug ya in a large empire, it's the war exhaustion that causes the 100K rebel armies to pop up every few months in your interior prov'nces.
 
That depends. If you kick his @$$ then he will leave you alone. If you will cry like a baby and give him your $$ then he will be back every day.:D
 
In my limited experience I've found it to be true that if you have a high BB, people will attack you right and left, if you are at war with someone already.

I played a game with Russia where I had a very high BB, and every country that bordered me attacked me at every opportunity, even though I had the largest army in the world by a factor of two.

If you can deter them by putting large armies in adjacent territories, that's very interesting, although it points to a strategy of putting huge armies where they can't see them, so you can blast them.

But that's a "kill everyone" strategy, and there is no challenge to that.

I think that the game should evey more heavily punish that strategy, in order to make it more of a challenge. The way to get the most VP's the easiest should be by behaving more sanely.

bruce
 
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