Does European logistics exist?

[dimaparaxod]

Right now in the game in the European region there are so many railroads and hubs that overlap each other and create some phenomenal supply numbers. You can bomb them, try to block the railroads, but the enemy will still have huge supply numbers. When I play for the Soviet Union or another region, I have to build infrastructure, improve the railroads, I need to interact with the logistics mechanics, but in Europe, logistics does not exist. So I would like to ask you, is this realistic? During WW2 in Europe, was it impossible to disrupt the enemy's logistics? Europe did not bother at all to deal with logistics?

P.S. I would like to clarify what I mean. In the game, starting the game in 1936 in the European region, I may not improve a single road, not build a single infrastructure, I may not even increase the level of motorization, I will still have supplies. At the same time, from the outside, if I am, for example, the Soviet Union and I will bomb the roads of Germany in Europe, Germany will still have enough supplies in Europe, that is, it looks like I do not need to interact with this part of the game in this region at all. And I mainly ask whether in real history European logistics were unshakable. Does anyone have information?

 

[blahmaster6k]

Right now in the game in the European region there are so many railroads and hubs that overlap each other and create some phenomenal supply numbers. You can bomb them, try to block the railroads, but the enemy will still have huge supply numbers. When I play for the Soviet Union or another region, I have to build infrastructure, improve the railroads, I need to interact with the logistics mechanics, but in Europe, logistics does not exist. So I would like to ask you, is this realistic? During WW2 in Europe, was it impossible to disrupt the enemy's logistics? Europe did not bother at all to deal with logistics?

P.S. I would like to clarify what I mean. In the game, starting the game in 1936 in the European region, I may not improve a single road, not build a single infrastructure, I may not even increase the level of motorization, I will still have supplies. At the same time, from the outside, if I am, for example, the Soviet Union and I will bomb the roads of Germany in Europe, Germany will still have enough supplies in Europe, that is, it looks like I do not need to interact with this part of the game in this region at all. And I mainly ask whether in real history European logistics were unshakable. Does anyone have information?

The USA used strafing attacks with rockets on fighter-bombers and basically made it suicide for the Germans to drive tanks or other vehicle columns on the road during the day in France in the weeks and months following D-Day. So not exactly logistics strike in terms of bombing specifically supplies, but close.

Interdiction missions made it very difficult for the Germans to bring in reinforcements and operate in general. Mobile warfare would have been out of the question even if Germany wasn't already suffering massive shortages of men, equipment, and fuel.

 

[dimaparaxod]

Guys, while I was interested in this topic, I found information on this subject, I will provide it below. And I got the opinion that the logistics of the DLC NO STEP BАСК does not show the problems that could also happen in the European region. I think at the moment in the game it is impossible to disrupt logistics in the European theater of military operations.

Now the logistics in the game is arranged like this - you can have 100% of equipment or 80,75,40,5% depending on its availability. But in the European region, due to the quality, quantity of infrastructure and its concentration, it is practically impossible to do this. In connection with this and the information that I found, I think we can think about this:

Adding "Communications" and "Speed of replenishment of equipment in troops" to logistics. The latter seems to be in the game in some sense, if I'm not mistaken, but it also depends on availability. A similar system in Europe where there are no problems with the availability of supplies could force the player to deal with logistics with the help of communication and delivery of supplies to the destination on time.

I don’t want to write a lot because I think you’ll be too lazy to read it, so if you’re interested, I’m ready to discuss this topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_logistics_in_the_Western_Allied_invasion_of_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_communication

 

[dimaparaxod]

The USA used strafing attacks with rockets on fighter-bombers and basically made it suicide for the Germans to drive tanks or other vehicle columns on the road during the day in France in the weeks and months following D-Day. So not exactly logistics strike in terms of bombing specifically supplies, but close.

Interdiction missions made it very difficult for the Germans to bring in reinforcements and operate in general. Mobile warfare would have been out of the question even if Germany wasn't already suffering massive shortages of men, equipment, and fuel.

In the game, the mission to disrupt logistics with aircraft during contested airspace is presented as a long-term goal. That is, if you imagine that supplies are sent by truck/train and you destroy them, the game means simply destroying the transport and not disrupting the efficiency of supplies due to supplies not being delivered. Although if you have green air, this turns into a very short-term goal so that the enemy can crumble. This is a question of balance. I think this mechanic would be more interesting if it could reduce the efficiency of supplies. But again, could this system seriously damage those huge supply figures that the European region produces?

 

[marxwasright]

There's a story that In 1940, the German panzers were refueling at local french gas stations. Compare this to the eastern front, where such infrastructure would have been destroyed. Just one example of the disparity in logistical challenge between the east and west. Along with terrain, weather, railroad gauges, sheer distance, lack of mechanization, and on and on.

1944 Europe isn't much different. I guess it depends on whose air-force survived. Does any AI besides Soviet ever use scorched earth? I forget if it was just a DLC feature as well, but never see it used by AI.

 

[Secret Master]

Given that I’ve overloaded the supply hubs near Benelux as Germany in 1939 to the point that i have a reserve army of 24 infantry divisions sitting a few tiles from the front so the panzers won’t be in bad supply, I’d say european logistics matter.

The fact that I prize log wizard and log companies so highly as Germany and the Soviets should also tell you how much I can strain European rails and infra.

 

[dimaparaxod]

Given that I’ve overloaded the supply hubs near Benelux as Germany in 1939 to the point that i have a reserve army of 24 infantry divisions sitting a few tiles from the front so the panzers won’t be in bad supply, I’d say european logistics matter.

The fact that I prize log wizard and log companies so highly as Germany and the Soviets should also tell you how much I can strain European rails and infra.

If you didn't know, I would advise you to close the ports if they exist, because if they are not closed, supplies will be delivered through them, they have low traffic and they can also be raided, a similar problem can be in Benelux. The Soviet Union also has a similar problem when it delivers supplies from Leningrad to Vladivostok, but if you close the port, supplies will begin by land and they will be many times more effective. This is if you are located directly in Benelux. Could you throw out a screenshot?

There's a story that In 1940, the German panzers were refueling at local french gas stations. Compare this to the eastern front, where such infrastructure would have been destroyed. Just one example of the disparity in logistical challenge between the east and west. Along with terrain, weather, railroad gauges, sheer distance, lack of mechanization, and on and on.

1944 Europe isn't much different. I guess it depends on whose air-force survived. Does any AI besides Soviet ever use scorched earth? I forget if it was just a DLC feature as well, but never see it used by AI.

I do not want to say that Europe needs to throw the same logistical challenges as the Soviet Union. In Europe, the infrastructure is really better, I do not argue. But I wonder if they really did not have problems with supplies and there was no opportunity to cause them problems? Perhaps they faced other challenges? Because now it seems, as I already said, that the European region is unshakable in logistics.

P.S. That's why I suggest the Speed of equipment replenishment as an option. Whether you have full access or half doesn't matter. What matters is how fast or how long the supplies will arrive. And the most important thing is that they will eventually arrive, it's a matter of time, not like now 32% access, that's the maximum that will arrive. I believe that this function could stop or speed up the enemy with effective or ineffective communication in logistics and it would not depend on availability (which is very much in Europe).

 

[Secret Master]

If you didn't know, I would advise you to close the ports if they exist, because if they are not closed, supplies will be delivered through them, they have low traffic and they can also be raided, a similar problem can be in Benelux.

Of course. I'm talking about supply via rails in this instance. It's easy to overload major supply arteries leading to Luxembourg, or in parts of Romania in preparation for Barbarossa if you don't help Romania build some rails and hubs.

It works the other way. France has terrible supply around the mountains of Savoy north of the ports on the coast.

As for the Soviets, I can swamp the key defensive areas with divisions in a 1941 Barbarossa defense if I don't mitigate supply draw. We're talking a standard river defense, not holding the Urals or something like that.

Even in Europe, I value supply reductions via doctrines, army spirits, log wizard on FMs, LOG companies, motorized supply, and so on. As Germany or the Soviets in particular, better supply means more divisions on the front.

This also doesn't address poor supply as it relates to air fields.

 

[mursolini]

Well, Europe is tiny, highly populated and highly developed, it should be the place logistics is the easiest, and you only poblem would be huge armies on tiny tiles.
Doubly so for triangle betwen Paris, Rhineland and alps, it was afaik the densest in the world.

We also don`t reall get the tools to manage supply amount, aside from trucks. building rails is fine if ou are on defence, but if not, it`s pointless, you will be in same average supply 3 tiles into enem territory.

 

[Ossiv]

IRL the Germans did not experience grave logistical problems in the West in 1940, but they did in the East in 1941. That is represented in the game and it should not be changed. Areas with high infrastructure (that represents roads) and railroads did allow then and still allow now better supply. If you bomb the infrastructure, supply becomes worse, like it did IRL.