Does the Ogre patch come with a siege rework?

[seperamos]

A scout shouldn't have the ability to seige outposts or cities. Basic building fortification should dissuade weak stacks.

 

[STARSDragoon]

This's how war works. Walls and fortifications can't stop anything if they're not protected well. A batallion will not stop a division. And there're countless examples of succefull fast attacks to enemy fortifications just because IRL people can't be on-guard all the time like units in computer games.

Random scout are very mobile and can attack everywhere. In reality coutering enemy raiding parties requires a lot of personnell placed everywhere. That why territorial defense, national guards, militia and other light armed military organizations exist. And I don't see any reason why single unit armies should not be able to do a lot of harm.

If the enemy brought 3 armies this only means that you allowed him to do so and failed to notice them approaching. In AoW PF and 4 big army groups can be noticed even through fog of war.

This is a game, not real war. Games are supposed to be fun. If its fun for you to say "whoops, city only had a squad, let me take it for free now, i brought a whole army" okay, fair. Not really fun in my opinion. Also this is turnbased. If i noticed your army but all my units moved already i cant do anything. While in an rts you could at least gather nearby troops. Because your army wont magically be inside my city within a moment. They have to walk their 12 hexes. And so should mine be allowed to move the 4 hexes to get into position.

 

[STARSDragoon]

From my perspective, I'm not particularly concerned whether it's realistic or not for a bird to take an entire city, but what the gameplay implications are. And frankly, I found it to result in a fairly unfun experience in Age of Wonders 3, at least against the AI. Leaving behind a weak single unit to defend against scouts doesn't feel like anything particularly strategic, just a chore you have to remember to do. It also felt like an even bigger chore to take cities back from the AI, since there wasn't really any combat difficulty when they'd attack it with a small, weak stack, just a distraction before you can get on with the fun part of the game. I also feel like the AI's programming to always keep units in reserve to defend their cities hurt them more than anything, leaving their frontlines fairly weak against a player army.

I don't want to be overly negative though, I did think the actual siege battles in 3 were better than Age of Wonders 4. Hopefully the siege rework will make the defensive structures actually, you know, matter, and add a bit more depth to the combat.

I think chore fits pretty well. Have some archers everywhere. Dont forget to set them on standby next to the center hex or you might forget to move your freshly produced reinforcements. Keep a bunch of fast units as a stack to hunt down scouts and small raiding parties etc.

A bunch of menial tasks that distract from the fun stuff. But you have to do it, or some cav units conquer half your empire while you stomp the next AI.

 

[aerothgow]

By far the siliest thing is you can siege on empty city. Fortifications that are not manned are useless.

Second is that you can produce units while sieged.

Third you can put armies inside while sieged.

Forth sitting there getting sieged is the worst option possible because you eat the siege projects. Best option is to rally out making walls the opposite of what they should be.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

By far the siliest thing is you can siege on empty city. Fortifications that are not manned are useless.

Second is that you can produce units while sieged.

Third you can put armies inside while sieged.

Forth sitting there getting sieged is the worst option possible because you eat the siege projects. Best option is to rally out making walls the opposite of what they should be.

I really don’t see thw problem of recruiting in a sieged city. It’s not like the population is completely useless…

 

[seperamos]

By far the siliest thing is you can siege on empty city. Fortifications that are not manned are useless.

Second is that you can produce units while sieged.

Third you can put armies inside while sieged.

Forth sitting there getting sieged is the worst option possible because you eat the siege projects. Best option is to rally out making walls the opposite of what they should be.

Of those, movement of stacks from inside to outside seiged cities was the most nonsensical part of seiges. There has to be a better system for defenders and attacks to seige and counter seige with skill and resources winning the tug of war. Armies caught within seiged cities should have limited movement at least, if not other debuffs acquired from tomes, wonders, or cultural abilities.

I'm curious to see what exactly has been reworked in seige.

 

[STARSDragoon]

Of those, movement of stacks from inside to outside seiged cities was the most nonsensical part of seiges. There has to be a better system for defenders and attacks to seige and counter seige with skill and resources winning the tug of war. Armies caught within seiged cities should have limited movement at least, if not other debuffs acquired from tomes, wonders, or cultural abilities.

I'm curious to see what exactly has been reworked in seige.

Sieged troops cant leave anymore. Only attack the sieging Party. But you still can bring troops in.

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

Copying over the beta patch notes regarding sieges:

Core Updates

• Reworked the Sally Out logic:
  • A Sally Out Battle occurs when a besieged player attacks the besieger with units defending the city.
  • Sally Out battles take place on the Siege map, with all Siege Projects and Defensive Structure effects active.
  • If the sally out battle results in all units within the city being destroyed/routed. The Walls are immediately breached.
• Added Movement Restrictions to Units inside a besieged City.
  • Units in a Besieged City cannot leave the City
  • Units in a Besieged City can reorganize within the hexes of the City
  • Units in a Besieged City can instigate a Sally Out Combat
  • Units outside of the City can enter it to reinforce, but won’t be able to leave
  • Trying to move path out the city will show a warning
  • Units inside the city will have a Unit property that shows the Besieged state (this is currently not showing up in the Unit Panel)
• When continuing a Siege that was lifted this turn by either yourself or another player, the previously selected siege projects will remain assigned. If the siege projects slots were locked, they will remain locked.
• City Under Siege Penalty now only reduced Food Income by 50%
• Outposts can no longer upgrade their Palisade Walls to Stone Walls.
• Achievement “Impenetrable Fortress” - Reduced the Fortification Health required from 150 to 60.
• Ambition “Defender” - Reduced required Fortification Health of Governed City from 100 to 40.

Most siege projects got greater strategic/tactical effects but no longer deal fort damage. Likewise most defensive buildings got greater tactical effects but no longer add fort health. The remaining fort damage and health was decreased across the board. I haven't played around with it much yet but it seems that Siege Breaker units will be relatively more influential for siege speed.

 

[Wyrd Deofol]

Copying over the beta patch notes regarding sieges:



Most siege projects got greater strategic/tactical effects but no longer deal fort damage. Likewise most defensive buildings got greater tactical effects but no longer add fort health. The remaining fort damage and health was decreased across the board. I haven't played around with it much yet but it seems that Siege Breaker units will be relatively more influential for siege speed.

They made the siege playable, instead of a "I top your card with this one" game.