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DorlasAnther

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Sep 3, 2015
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Some of you may have seen my post in screenshots thread. I recreated Dance of the Dragons for sake of fun and dragon slaughter and I have to tell you, it is really hard to slaughter those dragons. Not because they are invincible, but because it is hard to get their riders on field and when they are there, dragons may not have enough time to kill each other before battle ends.
So, I figured out that I might post few suggestions:

1. Don´t allow dragonriders to be on council.
Why? Well, during mentioned Second Dance, I switched to my enemy few times, to put dragonriders as commanders of the flanks, to make fights more even. And one of those times, I realized one dragon was missing. How big was my surprise, when I found out that one of dragonriders was in capital county training troops instead of, you know, fighting. I think this is problematic, especially in case of AI. Dragonriders have naturally the biggest martial, so AI just puts one of them as marhall. And then, when it is time to fight, they just sit there. While this probably makes no difference in normal wars, in wars against other riders (especially those controlled by players), it could turn the tide of war. Imagine that one side has 5 dragons of average size and another side has 3, 2 of them average, but one really huge. And rider of that huge dragon is made marhall. So, when armies meet, those 2 remaining riders could face 3 dragons of comparable size and strength and die. If they had this huge dragon with them, they could win the battle and maybe even whole war. So, just don´t make dragonriders marshalls, it´s really simple sollution. And it also makes sense storywise, dragonrider wouldn´t be sent to recruit soldiers, when his dragon could turn the tide of war.

2. Allow every dragonrider to be put as leader of army.
This is tricky, while I am certain there is a way to not allow certain people to be on council, I am not sure if you could allow someone who isn´t commander to lead an army. But sometimes, there just aren´t enough places for all of them, or someone else is commander. And AI can just be stupid and have dragon riders as courtiers during wars, not using them as commanders.

3. Make fights between dragons in style of Valyrian steel sword puzzle.
6 dragons are in battle, they face each other on the skies...aaand battle is over and no dragon was even wounded. This is simply because you have to wait some time for next pop-up and when there are many dragons or one side is really small (or one rider uses his/her dragon and immediately causes morale of one side to drop, shortening the battle), you just don´t get to the end of the fight. If fights were done like those puzzle (or Warhammer duels), you could always finish them. And suddenly, no more dragon fights with 0 dead dragons.

4. Increase tameable age.
Brave dragonrider, eager to defeat his enemies...on back of 2 years old dragon. Wonderful. There were two 5 years old dragons in this game. First one died immediately in his first battle (and by that I really mean immediately, there were 6 dragons and those remaining 5 weren´t even wounded). Second one miraculously survived his first battle, only to be killed in second...by wounded dragon with 7 martial.
Do we really need those small dragons in battles? Even when you are ruler with dragon, you can do dragon conquest only when dragon has 10 martial. Why not increase age in which they can be tamed to 8 or even 10? This way, baby dragons will only die as sickly infants, not in battles, because their rider chose to conquer the world/liege of their rider made them commander. In both cases, they are just sent against much bigger dragons and die for no reason.

I hope these suggestions could be helpful and feel free to discuss them.
And even though it might seem I criticize a lot, I want you to know that I love this mod and it is one of my most favorite mods out there. So, keep up the good work and thanks for all those hours I had fun with AGoT mod.
 
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I agree wholly with 3 and 4, partially with 2, and 1 to a degree.

1, I feel like dragon riders should perhaps only be forbidden from being the master at arms, I don't believe the other council positions stop them from being generals. Perhaps should also only be forbidden to an AI liege with dragon riders. Also, I think if 2 were implemented fully then it would negate the need for 1.

My only reservation for 2 is I'm wondering if it's fully canon that every person who was bonded with a dragon also fought in battle? I'm thinking specifically of Helaena (wife of Aegon II) as an example of someone who stayed out of a major conflict, granted she was *technically* there to guard the children.

Also, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm wondering if the tameable age being 2 wasn't implemented solely for the sake of Dany.
 
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I agree wholly with 3 and 4, partially with 2, and 1 to a degree.

1, I feel like dragon riders should perhaps only be forbidden from being the master at arms, I don't believe the other council positions stop them from being generals. Perhaps should also only be forbidden to an AI liege with dragon riders. Also, I think if 2 were implemented fully then it would negate the need for 1.

My only reservation for 2 is I'm wondering if it's fully canon that every person who was bonded with a dragon also fought in battle? I'm thinking specifically of Helaena (wife of Aegon II) as an example of someone who stayed out of a major conflict, granted she was *technically* there to guard the children.

Also, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm wondering if the tameable age being 2 wasn't implemented solely for the sake of Dany.

Well, there could always be exception for Dany...just make her dragonrider for 0 years old Drogon at the start of the game. It´s not like there is difference between 2 and 0 years old dragon in terms of power (they both suck).
I also don´t mind some special cases when dragon rider can´t be put as leader of army, but main problem of councilors (all of them) is that due to their current occupation, they can´t lead armies, which wasn´t case in story (Tywin Lannister was Hand of the King and still lead forces). By making dragon riders available to lead armies, I meant to allow them this option even when they aren´t commanders. I doubt it is even possible to allow someone to collect taxes and lead armies at the same moment, so I suggested lesser evil: removing possibility to make dragon riders councillors.
Although, I like your idea of restrictions only for AI (I have no idea why I didn´t think of that). Player is of course thinking logically, so there is no need to restrict him.
 
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1) Ehhh that is kinda unavoidable as they make great marshalls but will see if there is anything we can do to tweak the ai appointing them
2) Not possible to have them all be leaders of your armies as you are limited to your number of commanders
3) That would be a massive pain to code and honestly would not lead too much of a benefit, all it would be is making a duel out of the dragon fight based on martial then give them a couple of modifiers for say attacking or defending etc. Currently it is just a measure of total dragon strengths and then apply damage to the losers and possibly to the winners which works pretty well and in pretty much all the ones I have seen a dragon is always wounded or maimed at a minimum
4) The age is there for Dany and also to give the bonus tactics that come from being a dragon rider, which do no vary based on age of the dragon IIRCE
 
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Last I checked, it's essentially a blanket, universal boost to all troops in the flank with the same tiered style used for other tactics in the mod, based more on the size and age of the dragon than the martial of the rider I'm guessing.
 
Also is there a way we can change the rate in which it randomizes the photo for the dragons? i get the same picture for my dragon hatches for almost every new dragon... i hatched 3 in one game and all looked identical.
 
Also is there a way we can change the rate in which it randomizes the photo for the dragons? i get the same picture for my dragon hatches for almost every new dragon... i hatched 3 in one game and all looked identical.
They all have an equal chance of getting one of the images, there are only like 20 images so you are bound to get repetition
 
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1) Ehhh that is kinda unavoidable as they make great marshalls but will see if there is anything we can do to tweak the ai appointing them

A bit of a brute-force solution, but one way would be to add a condition to the can_be_marshal trigger:

OR = {
liege = { AI = no }
NOT = { trait = dragon_rider }
}

So the player can appoint a dragon-rider as their marshal if they want, but the AI won't.

Or, to allow for dragonriders to be councillors in peacetime but ensure that the AI has them available as commanders in wartime, add this to all the can_be_<councillor> triggers:

OR = {
liege = { AI = no }
NOT = { trait = dragon_rider }
liege = { war = no }
}

So dragonriding vassals of AI lords immediately leave the council when war breaks out, and are thus available for selection as commanders.
 
A bit of a brute-force solution, but one way would be to add a condition to the can_be_marshal trigger:

OR = {
liege = { AI = no }
NOT = { trait = dragon_rider }
}

So the player can appoint a dragon-rider as their marshal if they want, but the AI won't.

Or, to allow for dragonriders to be councillors in peacetime but ensure that the AI has them available as commanders in wartime, add this to all the can_be_<councillor> triggers:

OR = {
liege = { AI = no }
NOT = { trait = dragon_rider }
liege = { war = no }
}

So dragonriding vassals of AI lords immediately leave the council when war breaks out, and are thus available for selection as commanders.
But that is not really a good fix as we would rather they can be on the council if they fit well for said position
 
Also is there a way we can change the rate in which it randomizes the photo for the dragons? i get the same picture for my dragon hatches for almost every new dragon... i hatched 3 in one game and all looked identical.
Are you sure you're not talking about the child picture, even human characters all look identical as children.
 
But that is not really a good fix as we would rather they can be on the council if they fit well for said position

But don´t they fit more to lead armies in times of war? If I had someone with 50 years old dragon in my court, I wouldn´t use him to collect taxes, when enemy army is on my doorstep.
 
wait there is a child picture for the dragons?
Yes up until 16ish they all look the same as that is how ck2 portraits work. Notice how all children of a culture look the same until they get to about 16 at which point their actual portrait is shown, same thing happens with dragons
 
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There is a AI maintenance event that should put AI dragon riders in command/battle, will on check/revise this event.
 
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Yes up until 16ish they all look the same as that is how ck2 portraits work. Notice how all children of a culture look the same until they get to about 16 at which point their actual portrait is shown, same thing happens with dragons

I have noticed it before in normal children but I'm going to be completely honest. I have never paid attention to the dragons as children. I always considered them too weak to really make much of a difference. Thank you for clearing that up for me.