Dynamic Shields

[Don_Quigleone]

Problem with that, what if Scotland unites the Island? Another form, just for Scotland? Maybe that'll let us have the Scottish Union Jack if we unite Great Britain as Scotland.

Indeed. Alternatively, Scotland can tag switch to England and become "Great Britain", or the flags and names events can change your country would be completely unhinged from the base game. As Scotland any event could change your country to "Great Britain" or even "Ottoman Empire" if modders wanted to.

 

[demanvanwezel]

Problem with that, what if Scotland unites the Island? Another form, just for Scotland? Maybe that'll let us have the Scottish Union Jack if we unite Great Britain as Scotland.

sorry can't resist, it was scotland that united the island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns

 

[Jaol]

Problem with that, what if Scotland unites the Island? Another form, just for Scotland? Maybe that'll let us have the Scottish Union Jack if we unite Great Britain as Scotland.

That's just the sort of thing this sort of system would be good for.

The idea is that your name and flag/CoA are separate from your tag. So any nation that owns both Scotland and England could get an event letting it change its name and flag. Rather than having additional TAGs (which slow the game down) you just add flag/name files (which don't).

 

[NoMoreSanity]

While I'm unsure on the idea of creating separate flags altogether if certain different nations unify historical entities (Like Scotland or Ireland for Great Britain) the idea of separate flags for different governments sounds nice. Though I can only it working in a lesser capacity than Vicky II's: A flag for monarchies, a flag for republics, and a flag for Revolutionary Governments. And depending on the state you might have to either look for obscure sources or make shit up for say, some of the smaller German nations or New-World nations. It'd be a lot of work for too little gain on Paradox's part I think, but if they did find a way to implement it without using awful Shields/Flags (Like the awful fascist flag for Germany in Vicky II) it could work.

 

[KomodoWaran]

I think the solution with the best cost-benefit-ratio would be to implement a dynamic flag system based on V2's but instead of PDS creating flags for every possible situation they would focus on the few historical flags (e.g. Rev. France). Leaving the speculative flags to the modding community.

That way you would get a mod-friendly and efficient tag-system without needing excessive resources.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

I think the solution with the best cost-benefit-ratio would be to implement a dynamic flag system based on V2's but instead of PDS creating flags for every possible situation they would focus on the few historical flags (e.g. Rev. France). Leaving the speculative flags to the modding community.

That way you would get a mod-friendly and efficient tag-system without needing excessive resources.

I don't even think it needs to be dynamic or automatic (as in V2), as long as it could be done through events, no one would complain. The country name and reference to flag being used would just need to be stored in the save game file.

 

[Jaol]

I don't even think it needs to be dynamic or automatic (as in V2), as long as it could be done through events, no one would complain. The country name and reference to flag being used would just need to be stored in the save game file.

Yeah, basically the CoA system in CK2, but with flags/names.

 

[John Forseti]

I would like to see this aswell, particularly the suggestion that it could be done via event and linked to many variables so not just goverment type. However I think to do it that way would very likely need some engine modifications and since I'm no programmer I couldn't even speculate as to how easy or difficult that'd be.

 

[airpirate]

Considering how rare changes would be in vanilla and that most of the time the emblems are government neutral, why not do it how Darkest Hour does it? Every tag has a single default name and emblem, but that name and emblem can be changed with events and decisions. The one thing I would add from the Darkest Hour system is the ability to change the name and flag of a tag without that tag actually holding any territory. The main thing I could see this used for is having more flavorful colonial revolters. Mexico colonized by Muslims? Mexico gets a new name and star and crecent on its flag.

 

[Darkath]

Yeah, I don't think most people would care if it was modder only. Just unhinge name/flag from tag, and allow names and flags to be changed in events, even that would be sufficient.

France is not the only case, with this feature, you could remove the separate Great Britain tag, and simply have England renamed to Great Britain, with the appropriate Union Jack.

I had a case were scotland AI formed great britain, then scots rebels got their independance, followed by english nationalists. The islands were then separated between england, scotland, and great britain as 3 independant states. Kinda weird stuff

 

[Darkath]

Considering how rare changes would be in vanilla and that most of the time the emblems are government neutral, why not do it how Darkest Hour does it? Every tag has a single default name and emblem, but that name and emblem can be changed with events and decisions. The one thing I would add from the Darkest Hour system is the ability to change the name and flag of a tag without that tag actually holding any territory. The main thing I could see this used for is having more flavorful colonial revolters. Mexico colonized by Muslims? Mexico gets a new name and star and crecent on its flag.

That could work too ! I'd be happy as long there is at least some sort of system that allow easy modding of flags.
As for "most" emblems being government neutral, i disagree, most were emblems of the monarchy, like swedish crowns, norway's lion, england lions + lillies, french lillies, spain/castille's castles, Ming's 明, japan emperor's golden chrysanthemum, etc. etc. Then probably the micro states of the HRE had mostly neutral symbols as they weren't monarchies for the most part.

 

[airpirate]

That could work too ! I'd be happy as long there is at least some sort of system that allow easy modding of flags.
As for "most" emblems being government neutral, i disagree, most were emblems of the monarchy, like swedish crowns, norway's lion, england lions + lillies, french lillies, spain/castille's castles, Ming's 明, japan emperor's golden chrysanthemum, etc. etc. Then probably the micro states of the HRE had mostly neutral symbols as they weren't monarchies for the most part.

My memory of EU3 is a bit hazy because I haven't played it in quite a while, so you're probably right about the emblems. Still, considering how often actual flag change would happen and that getting flags separate Republic and Monarchy (and possibly theocracy) crests for every nation would be impossible, I think it would be best to have name and flag change handled on a tag by tag basis.

 

[John Forseti]

Still, considering how often actual flag change would happen and that getting flags separate Republic and Monarchy (and possibly theocracy) crests for every nation would be impossible

It wouldn't be impossible at all, there might not be historical examples of Theocratic Venice but a lot of alternate flags in V2 are made up, they could do the same if they were to use the same system. Or if they don't want to do the research and spend the time they could just copy the default one in all but the most famous cases(e.g Revolutionary France, English Commonwealth etc)

 

[ANO1453]

Uh, I can already imagine anachronistic flags everywhere. It could be cool, but don't tie it to governments.

 

[Draky]

I always thought the dynamic flags of Victoria 2 were a really nice touch, as the few shield changes based on events in EUIII (great britain, scandinavia, revolutionary france).

It'd be great if the dynamic flag system was expanded to EUIV to better reflect government changes, at least for main countries transitioning from monarchy to republic in the late game.

Agreed!
I am pretty sure Paradox CAN do this at least for the most important countries.

 

[Natte]

I would love a system like this as well. Even if that means that they have solely implemented the mechanic at release and no art work/flags for it, pretty sure modders will have new flags out in a day or two regardless.

 

[KomodoWaran]

I think it would be great to have a system where a TAG's name and flag could be determined by various factors such as government type, state religion, state culture and even something like the ownership of certain provinces or the name of the ruling dynasty. In addition these factors could then be used to determine from which file the game is supposed to get things like leader names, ship names, etc. The amount of content PDS created for V2's TAGs wouldn't even be needed, just having a mod-friendly system like that as part of the game would be simply amazing.

Well, a body can dream.

 

[Dafool]

The interesting thing is that EU3 already has a similar system with government titles, where the monarch name can change based on culture and religion. This means we can have a basic "imperial_government_ruler" = "Emperor", but "imperial_government_ruler_germanic" = "Kaiser". It would be very interesting if had a system where flags could be given similar attributes. France could simply have a "FRA" flag, the three fleurs-de-lis on the blue background, and then have a "FRA_revolutionary_republic" flag, with it being the tricolor. The benefit of this over a system where flags are changed dynamically based on governments, culture, and religion is that PI is in no way forced to create a separate flag for each. They can add in a few where need, like with France/Rev. France, but they can largely leave the rest alone. We modders could have an absolute heyday with it though.

 

[Keanon]

Maybe it's just me, but this game starts in a time barely escaping the Feudal times and it starts much more Coat of Arms based, so I'd really want for nations to have both a COA and a flag, especially so I as a dane can get rid of seeing Dannebrog in a shield like it does in EU3.