Econo-history-philes? Please respond.

[Savant]

Seeking world economic references

What I would like to do is get ahold of information that statistically describes the world economy during the EU period.

Things like:

-shipping tonnage
-commodity prices
-recessions/boon periods preferably by region (asia, europe, etc)
-gold/silver importation
-value of trade in different ports or regions

I would like data so that I may make appropriate changes to the trade.csv, goods.csv, and infrastructure.csv files. My hypothesis is that trade was more "mature" as a contribution to the wealth of a realm so that it's effect on wealth was magnified (proportionate to infrastructure - taxes) until 1600. Then "infrastructure" became moreso in the 1600s and as more powerful central governments, national economies, and absolute monarchies came to the fore, national tax revenue played an increasingly important tole in funding the new nation states.

So, in terms of my hypothesis this means that the trade %'s in the trade.csv file should start a bit higher and grow more quickly in the 1500s and then grow more slowly through the rest of the game. The %'s in infrastructure.csv should grow more slowly at first and then rapidly escalate after 1600.

If there are internet links to these data, I'd appreciate you sharing them.

 

[Vandelay]

Hey, Savant!

I really, really recommend Braudel's books:

Civilization and Capitalism - three staggering volumes. Amazing stuff.

and

The Mediterranean and The Mediterranean World in the Age of Phillip II - the best history book ever IMO.

Oh, on your ideas on trade and infrastructure I think you're broadly right. I think that Sweden's income came from aggressive centralization and exploitation of mainly her own production in the late 17th century (an easily criticized sweeping statement, I know), but this was not the case for Denmark which relied heavily on the Öresund tolls.

My main beef with the EU economic model are the trade goods produced in certain provinces (I always do change in Scandinavia and The Med.) and how demand for these trade goods develop.

Grain for example should be in demand in the 1500´s, lose demand in the 1600's and again be in demand in the 1700's - in EU it's justa always worthless.

Hmm, maybe I should do some work when I'm at work?

Cheers,

Vandelay

 

[Savant]

Ah... but this is work! Just we aren't compensated for it.

Thanks for the info Vandelay. Seems the same thing was the case for Engalnd where despite being a wealthy trading nation it realized the greatest benefit from infrastructure and a more efficient internal economic system.

I will get the Braudel text as it seems to be the most widely cited and discussed as an economic ref for the time. Thanks for all your info!

 

[Winkelried]

I don't understand much about altering files in EU but I'd like to change the way Inflation is implemented (before somebody accuses me of bashing this game I'd like to say that I'm very glad that finally there is a game which deals with Inflation).

Inflation increases only the price of creating armies and manufactures but it doesn't seem (that's how I percieved it) to affect tax income, prices of the traded goods, interest rates and empire stability (sorry but how can you have maximum stability if prices climb 50 % a year).

- with more money in an economy prices of all goods rise (sounds logical doesn't it?)

- with taxes levied on nominal income, trade etc. the amount of taxes collected also rises; that makes it interesting for a gov't to inflate if it has a great amount of dept (fixed nominally they loose worth with inflation)

- if you know that in five years your 200 will have only half the purchasing power they have today, you wont lend them to your gov't for meager 5 %

- you can bet that people will be quite upset, once they recognize that their real incomes increase at a slower rate than the prices -> this certainly affects stability

- there's a difference between disinflation and deflation: disinfaltion is reducing the rate at which price level rises (so that it remains stable), deflation is the fact that the price level falls (it is a negative inflation rate) but this happens only in a significant way during recessions like The Great Depression in the 30s

Again that's the way I see the concept of inflation implemented in this game. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. Otherwise I hope that something can be done to improve this aspect.

just my 2 cents

 

[unmerged(4382)]

data + economic cycles

Concerning the data you would like to get, I think it will be quite difficult to find accurate ones (save shipping tonnage maybe). Finding accurate statistical data is actually the main problem of economic history for pre-statistical times. More often than not, you have only parse data for several different places and different years.

An aspect of economic history that EU doesn't show IMMO is that at those times economic growth can't continue over a certain point, because supply just can't follow demand, due to the state of technology. This explains the "dark" 17th century after the economic expansion of the 16th. This will only change with the industrial revolution.