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May 6, 2005
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I'd like to increase 1933 IC for both France and the UK and decrease it for Italy. Does anyone know how to do this? I'd preferably like to change the negative peacetime effects for both France and the UK and increase it for Italy and perhaps Germany too. The extremely low IC for both France and the UK seem to be the root of all evils in my most recent game
 
OK, i just found "peacetime_ic_mod" within the scenerio text files. Hopefully crippling both Italy and to a lesser extent Germany, and helping out France and Britain should make for a more interesting game.
 
i'm pretty new to the hoi2 game as a whole but when i started my first game in IC as Japan I was surprised at how much larger my and the other axis/fascist country's ic was compared to the allies. I mean I'm at around the 80 level and Great Britain is only in the 20s! I dont think its like that in the regular hoi2? so which brings to ask why is it like this in IC and isnt it unbalanced? It's quite strange to see Italy with more ic than the UK, France and US combined.

And another point, I started the 1933 scenario as Japan and for fun would save the game and load up again with another country to see what they're doing. Well its 1938 now and all the allied countries seem to build is factories, probably because they too realize that they cant compete with the axis countries and their massive ic. Of course during that time i'm practically the only one actually building any military units and i fear the upcoming war will be too easy? Now i'm guessing their ic will rise when the war starts but if they cant compete at the very beginning of the game they've practically lost the war already. Have I got this wrong?
 
i'm pretty new to the hoi2 game as a whole but when i started my first game in IC as Japan I was surprised at how much larger my and the other axis/fascist country's ic was compared to the allies. I mean I'm at around the 80 level and Great Britain is only in the 20s! I dont think its like that in the regular hoi2? so which brings to ask why is it like this in IC and isnt it unbalanced? It's quite strange to see Italy with more ic than the UK, France and US combined.

And another point, I started the 1933 scenario as Japan and for fun would save the game and load up again with another country to see what they're doing. Well its 1938 now and all the allied countries seem to build is factories, probably because they too realize that they cant compete with the axis countries and their massive ic. Of course during that time i'm practically the only one actually building any military units and i fear the upcoming war will be too easy? Now i'm guessing their ic will rise when the war starts but if they cant compete at the very beginning of the game they've practically lost the war already. Have I got this wrong?

You haven't (at least in my opinion). There's another thread about the game being broken where I and a couple of others have been discussing this. I think that the Italians are far too strong. I've also been complaining about the free tanks and planes and IC the Germans are gifted as a result of events, which to me seems particularly perverse in the light of their ability to build from the start of the game. Italy's IC, in particular, is a real issue. June 1940 and I'm facing 20+ divisions in the North African desert.

There are also issues with the combat strength of the Axis minor units, with some Axis minor units having 100+ Org. And other issues.
 
You haven't (at least in my opinion). There's another thread about the game being broken where I and a couple of others have been discussing this. I think that the Italians are far too strong. I've also been complaining about the free tanks and planes and IC the Germans are gifted as a result of events, which to me seems particularly perverse in the light of their ability to build from the start of the game. Italy's IC, in particular, is a real issue. June 1940 and I'm facing 20+ divisions in the North African desert.

There are also issues with the combat strength of the Axis minor units, with some Axis minor units having 100+ Org. And other issues.

Hello;

There is NO free units for Germany. All naval and land units who came by event have a cost in MP, IC or % of industrial ability. The fact that some units ( not only germans, try to plau with other countries, and see) have more than 100% of org. is not an issue or a bug: it's the cumulation of land doctrines research.

The game is not broken at all: it's only your opinion and, like you say, "a couple of others" opinion. Try to play it a little, no cheating, before to say something like this.
 
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You have to look at the Base IC and not to the available Industrial Capacity, the difference is not that bigger. Also the peacetime modifier affects to the available CI

Italy should have less number of factories compared to France but it may have higher available IC for pre-war period due to high peace IC modifier. In my games, Italy simply have more factories than France by 39( Italy : over 90 France : 80 ) and adding this, the advantages of Italy in terms of available IC( central planning, higher IC efficiency for Axis power etc.), there is a big difference.

Japan should also have less number of factories. These IC issues are leftover from Mod34 indeed. I hope to see more realistic representation of IC distribution among Big Powers in the next patches.
 
Hello;

There is NO free units for Germany. All naval and land units who came by event have a cost in MP, IC or % of industrial ability. The fact that some units ( not only germans, try to plau with other countries, and see) have more than 100% of org. is not an issue or a bug: it's the cumulation of land doctrines research.

The game is not broken at all: it's only your opinion and, like you say, "a couple of others" opinion. Try to play it a little, no cheating, before to say something like this.

IC costs are very cheap ( much lower than your manual production costs) and rare-energy-supply-oil costs are meaningless. There are also units that costs no IC( or IC efficiency). For example, Plan Z, look at the costs, and then compare it to the real cost of the fleet you will obtain via Plan Z. You will see the difference.
 
I'm with canarias on this. It may seem like the Axis are much more powerful at the start in terms of available IC, but the advantage is not what it seems at first flush.

I usually play as Germany, 1933 scenario, and by the time war breaks out in 1939, things are pretty much as they should be. Poland puts up minor resistance and has a fair amount of troops, but falls in a couple of weeks. The Norweigans and Danish are no problem with only token forces (just like IRL). The Dutch and Belgians are merely a speed bump on the way into northern France (just like IRL). The French fight a determined resistance with ample troop levels but usually get defeated fairly quickly because of faulty/foolish strategy (somewhat like IRL). In more than a few games they focus nearly their entire army in the area just to the rear of the Maginot and up south of Luxembourg, usually trying to make a stand in the northeast of France while I swing in behind them along the coast and seize a virtually unguarded Paris. By the time I get to Paris, the French AI has only just begun to react and has started diverting forces from their pointlerss defense of northeast France to Paris and the lowlands. Too late.

The Brittish, however, do a marvolous job of garrisoning their island and making it much more difficult to pull off Sealion when compared to other HoI games (just like IRL). I have yet to successfully complete the invasion of Great Britain in IC.

Just like IRL, the Allied navies are much better, but their armies are severely anemic leading up to, and in the early stages of the war. However, as the war carries into the second year (just like IRL), troop strengths start to surge, IC has taken a massive leap forward, and combined, the Allies are easily out-producing the Axis. This is pretty much true-to-life.

At first I thought the Soviets were a little weak in 1941, like it was too easy to steamroll their defenses and storm Moscow, but then I realized this is exactly how it was in 1941 IRL. The Soviets had a huge army but had major morale issues, poor training, only about 1 in 3 men actually had a weapon, and ammo was in short supply. They were poorly prepared, and were easily routed. The only reason Moscow did not fall in 1941 IRL is because Hitler second-guessed his generals and ordered Army Group Center to the South in an "assist" rather than continue their push on Moscow. His gamble failed and they ran out of time; winter came a little early and very brutal and stopped the Germans cold. (Winter stopped them, not the Soviet army)!

In IC, this has been simulated pretty well by tweaking the TC. By the time October rolls around in 1941 and the Germans have taken Moscow and pushed further east, TC is stretched very thin and ESE becomes a major issue. Suddenly winter sets in and I start losing a lot of troop strength to attrition (not a shot fired...but cold as hell and terrible ESE, just like IRL). This gives the Soviets the long winter of 1941-42 to regroup, rebuild, and get ready to launch effective counteroffensives in spring of 1942. Only this time, the Great Patriotic War has fired and their GDE has gone up and they are fighting much better. Most of their IC was moved to Siberia, so their industrial base is still fairly intact (even after pushing all the way to the foothills of the Urals, the SU still had close to 300 IC).

By this time, the US is in the war and is starting to build up across the Channel in England and is harrassing the hell out of western europe via its navy and airforce. Then Darlan cuts a deal with the Allies and suddenly, they're pouring into a relatively undefended northwest Africa. Now I am fighting on two fronts and the Italians and the minor Axis powers are all but useless protecting the soft underbelly of Europe (I prefer to leave military control to the minor Axis powers as I feel this gives the AI and the Allies a better chance...they've already got me as Germany to deal with...they don't need me also controlling Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, the Spanish State, and Italy...they would never stand a chance).

By 1943, things are pretty interesting, and it is by no means a given that I will win. Usually, victory is only assured for me if I can knock out the SU by the winter of 1941 (damn near impossible...especially with the revamped TC), or, at the latest, by late spring of 1942. If I am still tied up in Asia by the time the US starts firing up in the Atlantic and European theaters, it can get pretty hairy (again, as long as I resist the urge to take military control over the rest of the Axis).

So, I am with Canarias on this. The game can be quite interesting if you let it be. And the devs have done a pretty good job with trying to simulate the real life challenges faced by each side during WW II given the limits of today's AI capabilities.

I say "kudos" to the devs and enjoy the game. We're still quite a few years away from being able to implement the kind of AI that would be as challenging as another human being, and we'll probably never be able to "program" the subtleties and intricacies of real life (unless someone spends their entire life doing just that).
 
Hello;

Thanks, Piratefish; it's exactly the way we have choose to develop our expansion. Our idea was to make a new game with IC, based in original HoI2. So it's more difficult than the original, done for players who like new challenges; I always say the same thing: try it, play many games, and after, do your critics. No one loves to see his armies defeated, but before say the game "is broken", try to learn how to win.
 
Hello;

There is NO free units for Germany. All naval and land units who came by event have a cost in MP, IC or % of industrial ability.

If you don't like the word 'free', then fine - but I consider 4 battleships, 1 carrier and 6 heavy cruisers for a meagre % of industrial capacity to be as near free as damnit. The same goes for the miracle creation of the Luftwaffe when 5 Tac bombers and 2 fighters spring in to existence fully formed. Perhaps you can explain the justification behind providing Germany with level 4 BBs when they don't even have the tech researched, while Britain has to build its navy and research the tech? Same goes for Luftwaffe. I'd be interested to hear your justification.

The fact that some units ( not only germans, try to plau with other countries, and see) have more than 100% of org. is not an issue or a bug: it's the cumulation of land doctrines research.

You appear to have misunderstood me. Hungarian, Romanian and Bulgarian units are fighting in 1941 with over 100 ORG. That, I'm afraid, is not only an issue, it's a massive failure to recognise the weakness of the Axis minors. 100 ORG in 1941 for Romanian units? You shouldn't see 100 ORG until relatively late in the war, and you certainly shouldn't see it in a press ganged army!

The game is not broken at all: it's only your opinion and, like you say, "a couple of others" opinion. Try to play it a little, no cheating, before to say something like this.

I don't cheat. And the game is, in my opinion, broken.

While I'm at it perhaps you could explain the justification behind rating Italy's IC as strong as Britain's?
 
has anyone else noticed at least in the 1933 scenario that all countries basically just make factories leading up the war? I'm in 1937 so know the war is a few years off but the ai in all countries(maybe except russia) are making at least 5+ factories at a time, with germany making some 20 odd! occasionally the ai will also produce a single air/infantry unit but its all just factories. wouldnt they bet better off making more units instead of increasing their ic?
 
If you don't like the word 'free', then fine - but I consider 4 battleships, 1 carrier and 6 heavy cruisers for a meagre % of industrial capacity to be as near free as damnit. The same goes for the miracle creation of the Luftwaffe when 5 Tac bombers and 2 fighters spring in to existence fully formed. Perhaps you can explain the justification behind providing Germany with level 4 BBs when they don't even have the tech researched, while Britain has to build its navy and research the tech? Same goes for Luftwaffe. I'd be interested to hear your justification.



You appear to have misunderstood me. Hungarian, Romanian and Bulgarian units are fighting in 1941 with over 100 ORG. That, I'm afraid, is not only an issue, it's a massive failure to recognise the weakness of the Axis minors. 100 ORG in 1941 for Romanian units? You shouldn't see 100 ORG until relatively late in the war, and you certainly shouldn't see it in a press ganged army!



I don't cheat. And the game is, in my opinion, broken.

While I'm at it perhaps you could explain the justification behind rating Italy's IC as strong as Britain's?

Hello;

First of all, I don't need to justify anything to you. We have made a game appreciated by many people, and you aren't the once customer.

The Plan Z event has a highly cost in percentage of industrial ability: -10%, about 25 IC for a long time ( about 7 years). If you take the values of production of the ships, you will see it's less than the event.

For the Lutwaffe creation event, same thing: numbers talk.
Cost in MP of the event: -45; cost of one tactic bomber (M1): 2 MP x 3 = 6 MP for the 3 bombers
cost of one interceptor (M2): 1 MP x 2 = 2 MP for the 2 interceptors
6 + 2 = 8. So the total cost is less than the event's demands.
If you think this is for free, OK, but mathematics don't lie.

Hungarian, Romanian and bulgarian divisions: they fight like expeditionnary troops, or under their own flag? Because if they are expeditionnary in the garman army, it's normal that they have this highly organisation: it works like this since the first HoI2. The other option, in this date, it's impossible if you don't cheat ( and the IA doesn't abandon doctrines, so they can't take the german's ones, with high bonusses in org.).
 
If you don't like the word 'free', then fine - but I consider 4 battleships, 1 carrier and 6 heavy cruisers for a meagre % of industrial capacity to be as near free as damnit. The same goes for the miracle creation of the Luftwaffe when 5 Tac bombers and 2 fighters spring in to existence fully formed. Perhaps you can explain the justification behind providing Germany with level 4 BBs when they don't even have the tech researched, while Britain has to build its navy and research the tech? Same goes for Luftwaffe. I'd be interested to hear your justification.

The Plan-Z combined Fleet takes away 10% of industrial efficiency FOREVER thats anything but near free IMHO.
That is quite a huge penalty and it is possible to build much more ships with those 10% than you get with Plan-Z.
The only justification to accept the plan when playing Germany are the blueprints gained.
Same for Creation of the Luftwaffe - it takes much more MP than building the Airforce manually would take - but again Germany gains blueprints.
 
Hello;

First of all, I don't need to justify anything to you. We have made a game appreciated by many people, and you aren't the once customer.

Of course you don't need to justify anything to me. I'm aware that as a mere customer I should be grateful that you're talking to me. But I think that you have a serious problem here, I think that there are mistakes in the game, and as a purchaser of that game (and someone with reams of knowledge about WW2) I'm offering you my insights in to where I think you've made mistakes. A more mature person would welcome such constructive criticism however it was delivered.

So you think Italy's IC is fine? Could you show me the historical references that you've used to come to this assessment? I'd love to read them. Anything that indicates that Italy's military production was stronger than Britain's for the majority of the war would be great.

The Plan Z event has a highly cost in percentage of industrial ability: -10%, about 25 IC for a long time ( about 7 years). If you take the values of production of the ships, you will see it's less than the event.

Then why are the ships BB-IV and CV-IV, and the CAs CA-VII, when the German player hasn't researched the techs? For the British the fleet is laid out in 1935, they have to build it, and it's applied at the current tech level for the ships. Why is Germany special? This is an example of a flawed event, which treats Germany as a special case.

For the Lutwaffe creation event, same thing: numbers talk.
Cost in MP of the event: -45; cost of one tactic bomber (M1): 2 MP x 3 = 6 MP for the 3 bombers
cost of one interceptor (M2): 1 MP x 2 = 2 MP for the 2 interceptors
6 + 2 = 8. So the total cost is less than the event's demands.
If you think this is for free, OK, but mathematics don't lie.

Sorry, what are MP?

Hungarian, Romanian and bulgarian divisions: they fight like expeditionnary troops, or under their own flag? Because if they are expeditionnary in the garman army, it's normal that they have this highly organisation: it works like this since the first HoI2. The other option, in this date, it's impossible if you don't cheat ( and the IA doesn't abandon doctrines, so they can't take the german's ones, with high bonusses in org.).

Why do you keep accusing me of cheating? Do you think I've nothing better to do than come here and make up stuff?
 
The Plan-Z combined Fleet takes away 10% of industrial efficiency FOREVER thats anything but near free IMHO.
That is quite a huge penalty and it is possible to build much more ships with those 10% than you get with Plan-Z.
The only justification to accept the plan when playing Germany are the blueprints gained.
Same for Creation of the Luftwaffe - it takes much more MP than building the Airforce manually would take - but again Germany gains blueprints.

But Germany is already able to produce all this stuff and do the research without needing special magical events. All the events do are extend unhistorically Germany's advantage.