Elitism in MP?

[unmerged(17563)]

Is it just me or is there a bit of an elitist club forming among many players here...

Invitation only games being formed with those not in this club being totally disregarded and ignored. Even if these outcast players are veterans and or reliable.

Ratings of players skill that ignore many players or put them down with very low ratings...come on guys nobody is a 1 or 2 in anything.

Newbies who have valid opinons are viciously shot down by these elitists who believe that they and only they know the secrets to EU2.

The elitists are the ones who believe only they know what can make this game better and refuse to consider the views of others even if their ideas are just as pertinent.

What this is doing is making some players feel unwanted and inferior, I believe this is probably driving newbies away and is making some players consider giving away MP as they don't want to have to deal with a society that is structured like that of Regency England, one of lords and the hopeless plebes.

I wont name any names but those who are part of this elitist cult I ask you to take a long look at your attitude and to make adjustment before you end up with a tiny gaming community made up of elitist snobs. Variety of style and skill makes for more interesting games, don't continue to make it hard for some to play and remember that driving people away will ruin it for you in the future.

This is not an attack on anyone nor am I being nasty, I am just expressing something I and some others have felt recently and something I feel has no place in this relativly small online gaming community here at Paradox.

Regards

Rebecca

 

[unmerged(18425)]

In a word: yes

It's true. Slargos, Ryoken, Prince Eugene and especially HolisticGod are old conservative veterans who fondly remember the days of their greatness and the long gone days of the greatness of others (note how often they mention blasts from the pasts like Ulver, JohnMK and to a lesser degree Damocles).
Note also that my list consists mostly Americans

They snarl against newcomers, because those threaten their position. Only when a newcomer is of such a greatness he cannot be ignored, he is welcomed in the Valhalla of the veterans.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

For some people, yeah, I'm afraid. Still, they are the minority, and there's plenty of games/threads that don't have the stain.

 

[Dago]

elites are not auto-build
if they exist,is because the community helped them to form,same for who now is here to complain,i guess
dunno if it is the right word,but is the "suggestion" (as mental influence) that create the elites
just stop to be "suggestioned",and the elites will stop to exist,if indeed they exist

 

[unmerged(11287)]

yep, Lady is right, in any case i don't see those "inferiors" to organize themselves in order to make their own campaigns and of course to discrimate the elites. I was banned for the first time in a game of elites, true i like to flame games a little and my attitude is not always the best way to combat snobs, but i did try to return to the old group system that i was having a lot of fun, failed and now I just avoid some campaigns. Many others can be added to the list, but i think throwing names to the air is not the best way to let them realize, on the contrary.

JohnMK wasn't an elite in the past, he was just a good player who hadn't looked for a title, but fun and fair campaigns to play, unfortunately the elite expulsed many of these players (involuntarely) and now have the control of manycampaigns, many of them are fun, settled the Gm system, absolutism, and apparently there's more whinning and cursing than old times.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

For some people, yeah, I'm afraid. Still, they are the minority, and there's plenty of games/threads that don't have the stain.

cough* snob cough*
kidding

glad to know someone cares about this, thx Lady. I was intending to leave Eu2 after finishing Dogs of War I, maybe we could make a 2nd to regroup and get on with finally.

 

[Smirfy]

Variety of style and skill makes for more interesting games

Cannot help but agree, but until the engine can reward different styles of play other than the unimaginative, MP will remain EU total war extreme.
The fact that many of MP players are part of a clique so have diplomatic relations built on more than the country they control further reinforces one dimensional playing style.

Hopefully EUIII will address these concerns.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

Pibe: Eh? Since when? In any game I've ever been in I've been very welcoming of everyone assuming they are reliable.

 

[Swuul]

Take any community, anywhere. There are always a few who think they are "better" somehow than the rest. They have to grudgingly admit at times somebody might excel in some or all aspects, but as they refuse to join the elite-club they are viewed by the elitists as inferior somehow. These elitist like to make their status even higher by making public calls for "the best" to join a certain project.

As long as our scene have people like Mowers (ok, so he isn't here anymore), Owen, Wyvern or Peter we mediocores have no fear. They are the best of the best and have so far (IIRC) refused to join any elitst movements, and when any of them starts a new game all the "elitists" want to join them immediatly (because we all know they are creme de la creme and would most likely even killl to get accepted to their games ).

 

[unmerged(17563)]

I'm glad I'm not a lone dog barking up the wrong tree

I'd like to hear from one of the accused See if they can justify themselves :rofl:

 

[unmerged(18425)]

As long as our scene have people like Mowers (ok, so he isn't here anymore), Owen, Wyvern or Peter we mediocores have no fear. They are the best of the best and have so far (IIRC) refused to join any elitst movements, and when any of them starts a new game all the "elitists" want to join them immediatly (because we all know they are creme de la creme and would most likely even killl to get accepted to their games ).

Alternatively the reason everyone wants to join their games is because everyone know they are excellent GM's and players who do not quit their own projects because they're bored or fed up with it.

 

[Slargos]

I think this borders on character assassination.

Because we make invitation only games we are elitist?

Are you communist scum because you do not?

I want to play in games where I know the players and am comfortable playing with them. Sometimes this means I can make an invitiation-only game, and sometimes I make a call to the general public to join. I don't believe *anyone* is ONLY making invitation games.

As for the rest of your complaints, LE, they are utter tripe.

The only times where "newbies" have been shot down is when they enter the forum in the fashion of Esquire Daniel and tell everyone that they are playing like morons. The rest of the time, debate has been rather more interesting. I dare you to find an example of an "elitist" response to a newbie that hasn't walked in thinking he knows exactly what's "wrong" with this community, but actually offers up constructive ideas.

"This is not an attack on anyone" indeed. How do people find that they may be viciously rude to other people and end their words with "No offense meant" and think it fine?

As for the ratings? You must be joking! Everyone who's done ratings rates the people they are most knowledgable about in the community. I could do your ratings, but from the one game I've played with you, it wouldn't be fair. "People are being left out"? Dear lord, is this kindergarden?

No offense.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

As long as our scene have people like Mowers (ok, so he isn't here anymore), Owen, Wyvern or Peter we mediocores have no fear.

Unfortuantley for anyone from NA or Oceania those guys are all Europeans so we can't play with them

I ran a game dogs of war as GM but HG took over and threatened to quit over every single proposal I made to help the struggling players to stay viable, I was a GM held hostage by a few players who would've ruined the game by quitting, I was upset by that behaviour and was somehwat relieved when HG suddenly quit... Is it also these elitists who are most prone to quitting cos they don't get what they want?

 

[unmerged(17563)]

I think this borders on character assassination.

Because we make invitation only games we are elitist?

Are you communist scum because you do not?

I want to play in games where I know the players and am comfortable playing with them. Sometimes this means I can make an invitiation-only game, and sometimes I make a call to the general public to join. I don't believe *anyone* is ONLY making invitation games.

As for the rest of your complaints, LE, they are utter tripe.

The only times where "newbies" have been shot down is when they enter the forum in the fashion of Esquire Daniel and tell everyone that they are playing like morons. The rest of the time, debate has been rather more interesting. I dare you to find an example of an "elitist" response to a newbie that hasn't walked in thinking he knows exactly what's "wrong" with this community, but actually offers up constructive ideas.

"This is not an attack on anyone" indeed. How do people find that they may be viciously rude to other people and end their words with "No offense meant" and think it fine?

As for the ratings? You must be joking! Everyone who's done ratings rates the people they are most knowledgable about in the community. I could do your ratings, but from the one game I've played with you, it wouldn't be fair. "People are being left out"? Dear lord, is this kindergarden?

No offense.

heh theres the numero uno

your signature is very apt

so to attack me you call me a communist....well I am I admit it so what? HGs new game is invitation only, I point you to the wording at the bottom, god forbid soemone not on his prestigous liust wanted to join such as Bocaj...As for a newbie been treated with contempt I point you to you, hive and ryo's treatment of DSYoungESQ who I respect and find a relaible and fun player with not inconsiderable skills, yet he was treated like a silly child.

Shame on you Slargos that kind of nonesense is what does happen in a kindergarten, I would know I'm a teacher and a mother

 

[Slargos]

I'm glad I'm not a lone dog barking up the wrong tree

I'd like to hear from one of the accused See if they can justify themselves :rofl:

Why would you end your post with "this is not an attack" and then post this?

Let's see how the fairminded powers that be deal with this nonsense. :wacko:

Edit:

heh theres the numero uno

your signature is very apt

And this?

Seriously. I want to know. How do you justify your behaviour.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

Alternatively the reason everyone wants to join their games is because everyone know they are excellent GM's and players who do not quit their own projects because they're bored or fed up with it.

i don't think so, i have seen many of those Gms mistaking badly and doing shits, seriously.

 

[Swuul]

Is it also these elitists who are most prone to quitting cos they don't get what they want?

Yep

Altough, on a second thought, the only MP I've ever played from start to end was ToH I have quit the other games (in which I started from the beginning) because the game wasn't to my tastes for some reason....



Hmmm, would this be a good signature:

I am the sole member in the elitist group of "Zealot Crybabies of EU2 MP".
If I don't like something, it is your fault.

 

[Slargos]

i don't think so, i have seen many of those Gms mistaking badly and doing shits, seriously.

Ah. So to be a great GM is to never make mistakes.

That's a great attitude.

Mowers and Wyvern have been excellent GMs in the games I've played with them and I'd happily join their games any time because I know they will bring solid play to the table. I've never played with Owen or Peter as GMs but I'm pretty sure they would do an excellent job of it aswell, based on previous experience. Everyone makes mistakes, it is irrational to expect none at all.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

wow Slargos, you're taking this as a personal attack... what a defense of your part! i may admit.

In any case Slargos is right about one thing, he uses the thread to autoinvite the same guys everytime, but I'm sure he would use others good ones or "inferior" players to accomplish his own interest. In the long run this is a negative tendency. Let's say we would continue with this, many of the newcomers would get bored of being excluded, and many of us would leave Eu2 sometime, this is autodestructive as your capitalism/elitist system, you're such an extremist.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

Ah. So to be a great GM is to never make mistakes.

That's a great attitude.

Mowers and Wyvern have been excellent GMs in the games I've played with them and I'd happily join their games any time because I know they will bring solid play to the table. I've never played with Owen or Peter as GMs but I'm pretty sure they would do an excellent job of it aswell, based on previous experience. Everyone makes mistakes, it is irrational to expect none at all.

why Gms exist then? before all this crap, they were called Organizers, and they count on everyone in the game.