End of the Liberal Revolution

[Duuk]

The Liberal Revolution event increases militancy for Liberals and such.

The End of the Liberal Revolution only decreases militancy for anarcho-liberals.

My austria is collapsing for no good reason.

 

[OHgamer]

The Liberal Revolution event increases militancy for Liberals and such.

The End of the Liberal Revolution only decreases militancy for anarcho-liberals.

My austria is collapsing for no good reason.

Hmm will look into this.

 

[Jingles]

I guess the event assumes that the militancy of your liberals will increase so much that they become Anarchos. Thus, the end event lowers it for Anarchos. But, if your starting Liberal Militancy wasn't very high, then they won't become Anarchos when/after the event fires, and thus they won't be lowered when the end event fires. Am I correct on this?

 

[King]

Anarcho Liberals are the bad boys with the high revolt risk. If their militancy is lowered then they become plain old liberals again and should be fairly happish.

 

[Haukionkala]

I had this happen with China. I had liberal revolution in the 1860s, but it ended about one month after that. None of the liberal POPs had had time to become anarcho-liberals (had a huge number with 6 militancy, enough to get some revolt risk but not enough to become anarcho-liberal) so liberal revolution just gave me a permanent militancy increase.

 

[Calculus]

Same as Prussia after patch 2.01. Even I had low tax(under 30%) and they got everything needed from WM. I still can't get rid of them, revolt almost everywhere. It's really annoy. Will it be fixed or just WAD?

 

[OHgamer]

Same as Prussia after patch 2.01. Even I had low tax(under 30%) and they got everything needed from WM. I still can't get rid of them, revolt almost everywhere. It's really annoy. Will it be fixed or just WAD?

What were their militancy after the liberal revolution ends fired. The anarcho-liberals should have dropped once that happened, but what are the liberals you have showing, and what is the rate of their decrease in militancy. if they have low taxes and are getting everyday needs from the WM, then they should have fairly high decrease militancy rates.

 

[TheLoneTaco]

A related problem: In three games (Peru, Persia, Brazil), the Liberal Revolution has lasted only a couple weeks AT MOST. In Persia, the revolution ended two days after it started The start event seems to be tied to some technology, perhaps the end event should also be?

 

[Calculus]

What were their militancy after the liberal revolution ends fired. The anarcho-liberals should have dropped once that happened, but what are the liberals you have showing, and what is the rate of their decrease in militancy. if they have low taxes and are getting everyday needs from the WM, then they should have fairly high decrease militancy rates.

My bad. o After more years go by the militancy of liberals did drop eventually.

 

[Duuk]

What were their militancy after the liberal revolution ends fired. The anarcho-liberals should have dropped once that happened, but what are the liberals you have showing, and what is the rate of their decrease in militancy. if they have low taxes and are getting everyday needs from the WM, then they should have fairly high decrease militancy rates.

If their militancy is 9, it doesn't matter if the drop is -.5. You still spend several years will your military fully mobilized covering all your provinces. Especially if you have a party in power that doesn't let you give them some social reforms.

I'm sorry OHGamer, but that's a dumbass answer. The Lib Rev event raises mil. for liberals, it should reduce it for liberals and anarcho-liberals.

This is one more thing that makes me think the "extremist" ideologies weren't tested very well for actual game effect.

 

[OHgamer]

If their militancy is 9, it doesn't matter if the drop is -.5. You still spend several years will your military fully mobilized covering all your provinces. Especially if you have a party in power that doesn't let you give them some social reforms.

I'm sorry OHGamer, but that's a dumbass answer. The Lib Rev event raises mil. for liberals, it should reduce it for liberals and anarcho-liberals.

This is one more thing that makes me think the "extremist" ideologies weren't tested very well for actual game effect.

the mil drop is 4.00 for anarchos and con drop is 3.00. With those levels your anarchos should calm down - even a 10 mil anarcho will fall to a mil of 6. The problem is not the extremists, it is how one deals with calming down liberals so that they do not radicalize further into anarcho-liberals (or socialists)

If your economy is growing and your taxes and tariffs are low enough to let those POPs get everyday goods and ocassional luxury goods, then MIL usually drops fairly quickly for them and can even be on a negative slide from the start of the scenario. By having an event that cancels all the MIL gain for liberals at the start, you end up making the original Liberal Revolution event a simple "speed bump' that requries nothing of the player than to just circle the wagons and ride the storm out. The liberal revolution was not just a mere speed bump for most nations in 1848, it forced many of them to make concessions, with many of those concessions becoming permanent even if the original plan was to make them just as contingencies to calm populations down. Cuttting taxes and tariffs to increase POP income, appointing a liberal government or making mild political reforms (which is what the Prussian king did - Prussia became a constitutuonal monarchy in wake of 1848 and remained one, albeit with a highly restricted franchise), there are several things other than social reforms that can be done to calm the liberals down and get their militancy dropping. It may be touch and go (it was for the Prussian State, which hit a new crisis with Prussian liberals in 1861 that led to the rise of Bismarck and the move to use nationalism and war to reduce the appeal of liberal reformers) but that is a more realistic environment to deal with than simply removing the mil/con from liberals after a few years.

However players that refuse to listen to the demands from their POPs and try to simply preserve the status quo ante should expect that the growing frustration from the lack of reforms in society is going to result in increasing popular resentment and growing militancy. The result is either using further repression to maintain the status quo ante or the potential for outright revolution.

 

[Duuk]

The problem is that VR artificially raises militancy under normal conditions. That means that a monarchy will be falling apart by 1880, when in reality all the absolute monarchies managed to last until WWI finally did them in.

With the exception of France (which switched teams several times in this period), no monarchies were actually brought down by revolution that did NOT coincide with WWI. Therefore, it can be reasoned that the militancy-to-revolt modifiers in the game are out of line with historical fact.

Should the liberals be clamoring for more influence and reform? Yes.

Should the liberals wage a 50 year war that completely annhilates the economy of every nation in Europe? No.

 

[OHgamer]

The problem is that VR artificially raises militancy under normal conditions. That means that a monarchy will be falling apart by 1880, when in reality all the absolute monarchies managed to last until WWI finally did them in.

With the exception of France (which switched teams several times in this period), no monarchies were actually brought down by revolution that did NOT coincide with WWI. Therefore, it can be reasoned that the militancy-to-revolt modifiers in the game are out of line with historical fact.

Should the liberals be clamoring for more influence and reform? Yes.

Should the liberals wage a 50 year war that completely annhilates the economy of every nation in Europe? No.

None of the monarchies were absolute by WWI in Europe. All of them made a switch to some sort of constitutional monarchy which they then manipulated to serve the monarch's interests. As much as the Kaiser, Franz Josef or Nicholas II wanted to maintain or restore a divine-right system, they accepted (grudgingly) after a certain point that it was no longer possible to do so and remain on the throne.

Germany was a constitutional monarchy, as was Prussia after 1848. Dysfunctional yes in that the government was not responsible to legislature, but still had a Parliament and regular elections (with Socialist becoming the largest party in part because of this disjunction between elections and who formed the government). Same with Austria, The Ottomans and even the Russians (the Duma that resulted from the 1905 Revolution was not abolished, it was simply elected on increasingly limited franchises). And this facet is modeled by the ability of Con-Mons to appoint governments that may not necessarily reflect the popular results in elections. Yes switching governments does increase militancy with a one-time hit by 1.00, but by conceding the form rather than the function, you get the ability to reduce the constant militancy increase caused by having a purely absolute monarchy for liberal and lower class POPs.

 

[Duuk]

While I agree with you on that...

Converting to a Con Mon doesn't solve the issue. The main reason I know this is that my Austria above was already a con monarchy. We even tripped the Counter Revolution event (which failed). Suffice to say, my poor Austria was a mess.

 

[Brownbeard]

The problem is not the extremists, it is how one deals with calming down liberals so that they do not radicalize further into anarcho-liberals (or socialists)

Exactly, the end of the Liberal Revolution even should lower militancy of liberals as well. My nations are usually rather cosy and pop-friendly so my liberals get stuck at 7/10 and not 8/10 or more, and thus do not become anarcho-liberals.

If anarcho liberals get -4/-3, then liberals should get -2/-3 and the problem is settled.(Although I dont give a rats ass about conciousness since I play con-mon or democracy and push it skyhigh)

Edit: As for Latin America, liberal revolution is an obscure event that lasts for several days in 1850-ies, when your literacy crosses 30%. Its only purpose is to punish players that try to industrialize to early.

 

[Duuk]

This is true. My POPs are getting 100% of their goods with reasonable taxes. But yet they all hate me.