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nachinus

Homo ludens
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Dec 27, 2002
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This is something introduced in 2.32 that has made the alliance and war thing crazy. I'll try to structure a bit the consequences of this change and why I think this is a bug or a feature that has not been adequately thought.

1. Once a war starts, the original warring countries can call their allies. This is normal and the way it always worked in EU series.

2. Then, the allies of the original warring countries can also call their allies bringing countries that have no relation with the conflicting nations to the war. This is NOT normal and didn't work this way before.

3. Then these 3rd countries can also call their allies, and those theirs, and those theirs, and so on ad nauseam.

4. The result can be that a country that have no relation with the original conflict are involved in it, and that may even be enemies of the country they are fighting for.

This funny thing happened to me yesterday. I'm playing SEL, being sworn enemy of Egypt, warring against them again and again. After a Egyption civil war (started with my intrigur help) Cyprus gobernor secedes (with my 'help' inducing disloyalty). EGY calls their allies to war against Cyprus. They call Bitinia, who calls Pontus, who calls Epirus, who calls me. :confused: . So I'm fighting a war supporting my enemies against a country that I actually endorse. Even better, I'm made the alliance leader!!. Of course, I just offer a white peace and settle the matter. :rolleyes:

It's a pity, because in 2.32 AI countries are really clever when seeking alliances, and the diplomatic world seems more lively than before. But this alliance virus makes things absurd. Specially since you don't have any reason to decline calls to arms.

Suggested solution: As always, only the allies of the original countries should be selectable to be called to arms. Exception: any country should be always able to call their allies that are also tributaries to their wars, even if the tributary is not allied to the original warring state.
 
Upvote 0
I also agree to classifying this as a bug, a terrible one. To me, what's really annoying is when you end up, due to these "chain reactions", with nations that are at war with BOTH original countries.
 
In normal Rome it's pain in the ass if you are at war against ANY greek cultured country, that means you are screwed because EVERYTHING east of dalmatea - cyreneica line will be at war with you.

Well, throw in 200 new nations or however many there were added in Magna terra mod, when I put my mouse on the sword sign to see my enemies (I was parthia which is placed even eastern than it was in vanilla) I had 4 LINES of enemies, my original enemy was some TPM next to me but because the cultures are (in my opinion) screwed in Magna Terra I had EVERY non-gallic tribe against me. well, that gangbang ended up surprisingly and I managed to take a nice slice of land during the war, the original TPM was called to arms against someone else and it became over 5 provinces big, one big nation had civil war and lost 3 provinces to revolted countries, those who came from Black sea killed themselves with attrition and a few 30 unit barbarian hordes who were woken up :D:D

After I had ceased I had WE 4,8 or something like that but my neighbor who was DoW'd by Mauryan empire (pretty much like double-sized indian blue Seleucids) had to continue war, other thing I noticed is that the several countries (including those two) have been at war for tens of years and nations have +10 revolt risk by war exhaustion.

I guess we'll be waiting for patch... Or could it be these thing are caused by mod?
 
More alliance crazyness:

-As Viriato already described, I'm witnessing countries that are at war with both sides of the conflict as a result of the alliance vortex of doom.

-Also, AI doesn't seem to consider ongoing wars when offering/accepting alliances. I've seen a country break an alliance because it didn't want to join its allies war, then offer alliance again, then break it again for the same reason, then offer again, then break it... until the relations are so lo that they can't ally any longer. Crazy.
 
I have to agree with the others, this bug is incredibly annoying. The Call to Arms function shouldn't work if the target isn't directly allied to the original participants in the war, IMHO.
 
Please, please undo this. The AI doesn't understand it at all and it's extremely poorly balanced for all the reasons above.

Suggested solution: As always, only the allies of the original countries should be selectable to be called to arms. Exception: any country should be always able to call their allies that are also tributaries to their wars, even if the tributary is not allied to the original warring state.

I would also add that when you DOW a tributary, the overlord should be permitted to call in their allies like it works in EU3 so you can't exploit tributaries to avoid fighting an alliance bloc.
 
A quote from the EU3 chain, post #139 by one of the developing team:

Quote Originally Posted by Alerias
World Wars arent the answer.

This I agree with, and is why I agree that the system needs some tweaking.

Quote Originally Posted by Alerias
Its OK for the AI to build alliances against the player but we should know ahead of time who we are risking war with when we DoW.

But this I don't agree with. Why should you know this beforehand? Did everyone one who was gonna end up in the war in the Livonian War, the Thirty Years War, the Deluge, etc. Or what participants would switch sides in said wars? No. So why should the player? Going to war is always a risk, and has never really been one in EU.

End of quote.

It's obvious that it's Paradox' intention to make wars more difficult for any aggressive party (funnily enough most often the player - who is at the same time the most intelligent party in the game :)) and something you have to enter into with caution.

Meaning that it's a new thing they're trying out and that there are bound to be a range of errors and tweaks that need to be done (in EUR keeping the greeks from ganging up on anyone that declares a war is definitely one!), so we just need to be patient and wait for the next patch which probably won't remove cascading alliances, but will attempt to manage them somehow.

Some of you may already be fully aware of this, but I wasn't till I read the chain and understood what Paradox was trying to do. Honestly, I like it! But it needs serious tweaking and bug checking... Waiting for the patch :D