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Errors in Havard's scripting Bible and other notes

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YodaMaster said:
Diplomatic dates in country definition files don't apply to AI.
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Do they work if set directly into scenario file, or are there some diplomatic parameters that cannot be set at all from start?

YodaMaster said:
About war command...

War command doesn't work if one or more following conditions are fullfilled:
country DoWing has a military access on other country
country DoWing and other country are in same alliance
country DoWing is suzerain or vassal of the other country

First condition can't be checked in triggers but others should be.
If a war command is used in an action, be sure of intended result.

Since war can be avoided without control of modders, it is wiser to have it as single command of an action in an event where at least two actions are proposed.
Remember, an action where all commands are impossible is simply not displayed => if war is impossible, the event will work and will mean something anyway. In this case, avoid to ask a question in description unless two other choices can be made.
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Good points. Daywalker has additional information on this strange working command:
http://www.lhjworld.sa-net.dk/Eu2_res/text/Eu2_text_script_commands_diplomatic_01.html
 
Norrefeldt said:
Do they work if set directly into scenario file, or are there some diplomatic parameters that cannot be set at all from start?
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This is a single command only available in scenario files to forbid sending diplomat to involved countries (i.e. RM, alliance... and peace proposal too) from start of the scenario until a defined date. It applies only to players (AI countries can always send diplomats).
 
cool-toxic said:
I think has something to do with the controlled provinces, there could be problems if to nations control the same province and if you copied the "owned" and pasted in the "controlled" all the provinces that was under th enemy went back under there control again.

EDIT: When i war the provinces in "owned" doesn't match the ones in controlled so this rule isn't right...
Also when i make some changes to a scenario or savefile i don't set them up so the are in the same line.
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The problem I described was that a tag had three provinces and all were listed under owned and controlled in the save game file under the same country but they were not in the same order. This is different than two countries owning or controling. Here they were all owned and controlled by the same country but the list was in a different order for controlled than owned. As I mentioned I used the save game check utility to search for duplicate control or ownership before editing and there were none.
 
I read Daywalker's comment about war command again. I forgot the -3 stability and diplomatic relation within same month problems. I have to check them to be sure.

For the vassal-suzerain thing, I'm sure it works exactly as I said (I had so many problems when reworking China with Lu Chuan and Dai Viet...) but I can test it again.
 
17blue17 said:
In the country definition I belive that the provinces listed in:

ownedprovinces = { } and controlledprovinces = { }

need to be in the same order for both lists. For example:

ownedprovinces = { 375, 800 }
controlledprovinces = { 375, 800 }

and not

ownedprovinces = { 375, 800 }
controlledprovinces = { 800, 375 }
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I don't believe this is true. Whenever you gain ownership or control of a province it is put at the end of the list, not sorted in any way. If you lose control of two provinces and regain them in a different order they will not automatically go back into the order they were in before losing them. A simple test: try editing a scenario .inc file to change the order and see if it loads. (One minor note: of course there are actually no commas in the province lists as there are in your quote.) There was probably some other glitch that was bypassed by your re-saving the savegame.
 
jdrou said:
I don't believe this is true. Whenever you gain ownership or control of a province it is put at the end of the list, not sorted in any way. If you lose control of two provinces and regain them in a different order they will not automatically go back into the order they were in before losing them. A simple test: try editing a scenario .inc file to change the order and see if it loads. (One minor note: of course there are actually no commas in the province lists as there are in your quote.) There was probably some other glitch that was bypassed by your re-saving the savegame.
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Thanks for the information. Since I first posted I did test my idea by going to every tag and putting everything in numerical order and the main crash problem I am trying to track down kept happening in the next game so the order was not the issue after all. I wish I had tried your suggestion first and avoided all the extra work re ordering things :wacko:
 
YodaMaster said:
I read Daywalker's comment about war command again. I forgot the -3 stability and diplomatic relation within same month problems. I have to check them to be sure.

For the vassal-suzerain thing, I'm sure it works exactly as I said (I had so many problems when reworking China with Lu Chuan and Dai Viet...) but I can test it again.
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I did missing tests:

Diplomatic relations (sending diplomat) within same month don't affect war command (Daywalker is wrong but maybe he was right in previous versions of EU2).

Being at -3 stab cancels war command (Daywalker is right) => if war is really wanted, we must be sure stability is greater than -3 for DoWing country before event fires... Adding stability + 1 command just before war command has no effect and lowering stability to -3 (if stability above -3) in command before war command has no effect neither.

About Vassal/Suzerain and war command:
A vassal can have a war command against its suzerain. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for vassal (Daywalker is right).
A suzerain can have a war command against its vassal. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for suzerain (Daywalker is right). Vasselage don't have to be made before game reloading (not the same as bugged breakvassal command).

It is impossible to release a vassal and DoW it in same event. This is tied to independence command and not war command itself.
Vassal can DOW its suzerain in an event for the vassal triggered by event for the suzerain where vassal is released. Anyway, in this case, I recommend to explicitly add a breakvassal command for a known vassal just before war command.
 
Here is final conclusion about war command:

War command doesn't work if one or more following conditions are fullfilled:
country DoWing has a military access on other country
country DoWing and other country are in same alliance
country DoWing is at -3 stab

First condition can't be checked in triggers but others should be.
If a war command is used in an action, be sure of intended result.

Since war can be avoided without control of modders, it is wiser to have it as single command of an action in an event where at least two actions are proposed.
Remember, an action where all commands are impossible is simply not displayed => if war is impossible, the event will work and will mean something anyway. In this case, avoid to ask a question in description unless two other choices can be made.

About -3 stab:
If war is really wanted, we must be sure stability is greater than -3 for DoWing country before event fires... Adding stability + 1 command just before war command has no effect. Btw, lowering stability to -3 (if stability above -3) in command before war command has no effect neither.

About Vassal/Suzerain:
A vassal can have a war command against its suzerain. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for vassal (Daywalker is right).
A suzerain can have a war command against its vassal. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for suzerain (Daywalker is right). Vasselage don't have to be made before game reloading (not the same as bugged breakvassal command).

It is impossible to release a vassal and DoW it in same event. This is tied to independence command and not war command itself.
Vassal can DoW its suzerain in an event for the vassal triggered by event for the suzerain where vassal is released. Anyway, in this case, I recommend to explicitly add a breakvassal command for a known vassal just before war command (and in case war command can't work, we have at least the minimum effect of broken vasselage).


Diplomatic relations (sending diplomat) within same month don't affect war command (Daywalker is wrong but maybe he was right in previous versions of EU2).
 
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Thanks for clarifying and doing the tests! I have added it to http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4364576&postcount=3 with only minor language corrections and clarifications. Still, this is a bit unclear:
About Vassal/Suzerain:
A vassal can have a war command against its suzerain. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for vassal (Daywalker is right).
A suzerain can have a war command against its vassal. Vasselage will be broken by vassal at the same time with corresponding stability drop for suzerain (Daywalker is right). Vasselage don't have to be made before game reloading (not the same as bugged breakvassal command).
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The first stab hit is clear, it's only for the vassal, as normal. For the second case, does both countries get the stab hit, as Daywalker says, or only the suzerain?
 
This thread isn't still dead after one year... :eek:

If not already known, I am posting following information based on my personal tests in agceep:

Vassal+alliance commands targeting one country in the same event can't work as it is meant by the modder.
As liege you need to have an event to vassalize the targeted country first and then, if the liege is also alliance leader, a triggered (preferable) event for the liege itself to have the vassal country join his alliance. It does work indeed! :)

By this mean if a country is alliance leader and you would like to have her in some historical alliance, at any given date!, you can simply have an event to vassalize the would-be allied and another event triggered by the first to let her join your alliance. The other country would than have another (the third) event triggered by the second to break vassalage and get good relations or even a dynastic liason with the alliance leader and former liege. ;)

The only problem I can see here is that if the first country isn't alliance leader, the second country will leave her current alliances if vassalized by the first country and stay on her own again.

Different is the case if the vassalized country is already in an alliance with the first. In this case the vassalized country won't leave the current alliance iirc... :D
 
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