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  1. Armies are automatically set to x% (some low number) maintenance at peace to represented their soldiers being back in the fields or whatever. The full maintenance cost of armies massively increased unless they're off in enemy territory looting and sacking, then only increased. War is really expensive and EUIV doesn't really model that well. The position France found itself in 1789 was in large part due to the financing of the wars of the previous century. Combat losses should also reduce prosperity in the regions that the soldiers came from.

Wars in EU IV are quite expensive for the AI and Id wager most of the playerbase. Its only when you truly understand how to run a nation on the red while still making money and snowboling that it goes from being expensive to being profitable, but that isnt an easy transition at all.
 
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Everyone agrees that the current military-access system is a mess, and that being able to march an army from Portugal to Korea is a joke.

Buuuuuut, I don't think this is the solution. If I'm a big chunky Ottomans, why can't I raise an army in India and then march it to fight on the Danube? Maybe doing so should cost more in attrition than it currently does, but it should at least be possible.

How would this model allow for Napoleon to raise an army in France and march all the way to Moscow, without directly owning/annexing all the provinces along the way?
 
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Everyone agrees that the current military-access system is a mess, and that being able to march an army from Portugal to Korea is a joke.

Buuuuuut, I don't think this is the solution. If I'm a big chunky Ottomans, why can't I raise an army in India and then march it to fight on the Danube? Maybe doing so should cost more in attrition than it currently does, but it should at least be possible.

How would this model allow for Napoleon to raise an army in France and march all the way to Moscow, without directly owning/annexing all the provinces along the way?
How did that march to Moscow go for him?

I think I'm going to re-type this with an example, because I must have not done a good job making it clear how this would work.
 
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How did that march to Moscow go for him?

I think I'm going to re-type this with an example, because I must have not done a good job making it clear how this would work.
He got to the borders of Russia without issue, despite not actually annexing Germany/Poland. Would your solution allow that?
And you skipped my query on why Ottoman's shouldn't be able to recruit in India and then send to the Danube.
It's less the "bases" bit I have issue with, more the region-locking of manpower. Large nations have been able to recruit in one region and send to another region since ancient times.
 
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EDIT: This has nothing to do with the Victoria 3 "army base" system. If you're gonna just hit "disagree" without reading the bullet points below because you don't like Victoria 3's system, don't bother.

I think one of the most frequent complaints I see here is that nations can ship and move unrealistic numbers of troops all around the world with minimal downside. So this caused me to think: What prevents this? Logistics of course, but a full logistical system such as HoI4's eats a lot of processing power and becomes something of a game in itself. So I tried to come up with an easier solution (and also one that the AI can understand better) and came up with army bases. Here's how they'd work:
  • You would no longer directly build armies, but instead would build and expand army bases, which would automatically hire troops to a certain composition set by you. EDIT: Those troops would be placed in an army that functions exactly the same way armies do in EU4 right now, with the differences below applied.
  • Armies could only move a certain number of provinces from their base before they start suffering combat penalties and attrition.
  • Bases would build troops out of a local manpower pool instead of a global one.
  • Under certain conditions (national ideas, idea groups, etc.) bases could build out of regional manpower (Askaris, Gurkhas, etc.), which might have combat penalties but enjoy bonuses in certain types of terrain, or have a higher local force limit than non-regional manpower bases.
  • Bases might have special upgrades allowing for elite units to be produced with higher upkeep costs, or allowing for "light" armies which would have combat penalties but increased range compared to normal bases, etc.
  • Fleets with transport ships stationed on a coastline could temporarily turn those transports into a base for the troops they're carrying, but that base would only be at full efficiency for coastline provinces adjacent to that sea zone and combat penalties and attrition would start at the very next tiles. This would greatly encourage historical expansion along the African and Asian coast, where establishing a base first (Goa, Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, etc.) would be vital to projecting power in the region.
  • Bases could be disbanded for free and all armies they produced would disperse back into the local/regional manpower pool.
  • Mercenary companies, when hired, would build a base in a province in your territory set by you, and would still have their own manpower pool.
  • Small Conquistador armies would be capable of operating at full efficiency without a base if a nation has Exploration ideas or its EU5 equivalent. These armies would be very small, however, and not useful for fighting battles against major powers or nations on the same tech level.
  • Base cost would scale with size, and size would be limited by the manpower of your owned, same/tolerated/accepted culture provinces in the region it's built. If using regional manpower, the culture limitation is waived.
  • If an army's base is occupied, it can no longer reinforce until the base is recaptured. It retains its current operational region (presumably there's other infrastructure in the area they're used to using).
I think this would be a way more fun and interesting army system than the current one. It would also eliminate a lot of the army ping-pong in the game as it stands, since occupying bases would become a vital strategic goal and effectively eliminate armies from the field when accomplished. It's also another thing to upgrade and improve about your nation, which will add more gameplay to peacetime as well.

No.

This was a time where warfare was not done through an entire front, but in columns of individual armies, which EU4 already does. This means that the "calculations" you are referring to would be orders of magnitude fewer than in HoI, and so would their impact on performance.

Tying armies to imaginary bases is a bad idea though, as would make warfare overly abstracted and calcified, which is the single biggest flaw Victoria 3 has.

The game would benefit much more from a proper modern age logistics system.
That Indian army moving into Siberia to siege a random fort? Either they set up a proper supply line or watch them perish.

Unit reinforcement should scale with how well your troops are being supplied. Cut off an enemy army from its supply line and watch their numbers dwindle over time. No more doom stacking in the middle of nowhere.

Split off your army to garrison supply routes, otherwise a smart opponent will just harass your supply route and your army will starve. This means that infinite offensive operations will be extremely inefficient, thus moving warfare to a more gradual system, as it was during the time period.

Make it so you can allow your troops to live off the land. This increases devastation, decreases morale and discipline but allows you to survive while cut off. Or something of the sort.

Add a naval logistics system. Napoleon had to leave Egypt because, while he could supply his army locally, he could not reinforce it due to the British blockade.

Unit morale should also scale with supply.

This allows for a reasonably simple way to simulate modern age warfare. Setting up a siege deep in enemy territory thus becomes a much more difficult affair. Remove the fort movement block system, thus if an enemy chooses to move past a fort they can do so, but their logistics situation would become very dire.
 
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He got to the borders of Russia without issue, despite not actually annexing Germany/Poland. Would your solution allow that?
And you skipped my query on why Ottoman's shouldn't be able to recruit in India and then send to the Danube.
It's less the "bases" bit I have issue with, more the region-locking of manpower. Large nations have been able to recruit in one region and send to another region since ancient times.
Yes, it would allow for that. He'd just take an immense amount of attrition and suffer some combat penalties for being so far away from supplies. Which he did.

Ask yourself how it would go if the Ottoman empire hired a bunch of Indian recruits and then said "OK boys, pack up you're moving to the Balkans." You don't think there might be some issues with that? They might lose some men along the way? Yeah it's not perfectly realistic, but neither is being able to march that many troops wherever you want in the world with no consequences. I'm accepting the flaw of "it may be a tad too restrictive to be perfectly historical" to accept the benefit of "nations will have to keep armies all over their territory as they did historically instead of being able to bring all of their armies to bear in every war."
 
No.

This was a time where warfare was not done through an entire front, but in columns of individual armies, which EU4 already does. This means that the "calculations" you are referring to would be orders of magnitude fewer than in HoI, and so would their impact on performance.

Tying armies to imaginary bases is a bad idea though, as would make warfare overly abstracted and calcified, which is the single biggest flaw Victoria 3 has.

The game would benefit much more from a proper modern age logistics system.
That Indian army moving into Siberia to siege a random fort? Either they set up a proper supply line or watch them perish.

Unit reinforcement should scale with how well your troops are being supplied. Cut off an enemy army from its supply line and watch their numbers dwindle over time. No more doom stacking in the middle of nowhere.

Split off your army to garrison supply routes, otherwise a smart opponent will just harass your supply route and your army will starve. This means that infinite offensive operations will be extremely inefficient, thus moving warfare to a more gradual system, as it was during the time period.

Make it so you can allow your troops to live off the land. This increases devastation, decreases morale and discipline but allows you to survive while cut off. Or something of the sort.

Add a naval logistics system. Napoleon had to leave Egypt because, while he could supply his army locally, he could not reinforce it due to the British blockade.

Unit morale should also scale with supply.

This allows for a reasonably simple way to simulate modern age warfare. Setting up a siege deep in enemy territory thus becomes a much more difficult affair. Remove the fort movement block system, thus if an enemy chooses to move past a fort they can do so, but their logistics situation would become very dire.
Item one: I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that my suggestion has something to do with fronts. I never mention fronts anywhere in the suggestion.

Second, given your historical hang-ups, it's odd that you then go in to say that a "modern age logistics system" would benefit the game. Modern age logistics with supply lines in 1500 is about as ahistorical as front lines. I don't think either really has a place in EU5. It's better to accept some abstraction than try to simulate the complexity of looting for supplies, individual army supply wagons, etc.
 
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Yes, it would allow for that. He'd just take an immense amount of attrition and suffer some combat penalties for being so far away from supplies. Which he did.

Ask yourself how it would go if the Ottoman empire hired a bunch of Indian recruits and then said "OK boys, pack up you're moving to the Balkans." You don't think there might be some issues with that? They might lose some men along the way? Yeah it's not perfectly realistic, but neither is being able to march that many troops wherever you want in the world with no consequences. I'm accepting the flaw of "it may be a tad too restrictive to be perfectly historical" to accept the benefit of "nations will have to keep armies all over their territory as they did historically instead of being able to bring all of their armies to bear in every war."
But that's just normal attrition. Which is in the game already (to low and netfed for the AI since it can't deal with it). So what is the point of adding supply bases which Napoleon did construct in places like Königsberg (not part of his Empire at the time) and Poland (client state).
He also moved his supply bases forward over time.

The massive casualties started to appear once he entered Russia territory. Its not like there were 600 000 men when he left France (which didn't happen anyway since the army came from varied places all over Europe) and only reached the border with 300 000.

Your solution seems to completely prevent someone from actually moving through large areas if enemy territory despite that being possible if your supply lines were safe and you had a reasonable sized army and also preventing you from moving armies through your own country (where you have safe supply lines).
 
Yes, it would allow for that. He'd just take an immense amount of attrition and suffer some combat penalties for being so far away from supplies. Which he did.

Ask yourself how it would go if the Ottoman empire hired a bunch of Indian recruits and then said "OK boys, pack up you're moving to the Balkans." You don't think there might be some issues with that? They might lose some men along the way? Yeah it's not perfectly realistic, but neither is being able to march that many troops wherever you want in the world with no consequences. I'm accepting the flaw of "it may be a tad too restrictive to be perfectly historical" to accept the benefit of "nations will have to keep armies all over their territory as they did historically instead of being able to bring all of their armies to bear in every war."
No, he did NOT take massive attrition while crossing Germany/Poland before getting to the Russian border. That's my point. He took his army across territory which he did not own directly (Germany/Poland, not Russia, please try to follow along) and was able to keep it well supplied and in good order. Or are you suggesting that with your model, France would be able to build "bases" in Germany/Poland without annexing them?

And yeah, the Romans didn't raise legions/auxiliaries in one region and then send them off to a different one. Nope, never happened.

I think the point here is that while the current model gives armies far too much freedom, your proposed model goes too far the other way and is too restrictive. Armies weren't necessarily chained to a particular location. They could, and did, move to different regions without necessarily suffering massive attrition, as long as they had open supply-lines. And they could, and did, recruit from one region to send to another.

A system where an army is constrained to a radius of 10 (I picked a number) provinces around a particularly home location, is just as nonsensical and ahistorical as a system where you can march half way round the world without penalty.
 
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Item one: I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that my suggestion has something to do with fronts. I never mention fronts anywhere in the suggestion.

Second, given your historical hang-ups, it's odd that you then go in to say that a "modern age logistics system" would benefit the game. Modern age logistics with supply lines in 1500 is about as ahistorical as front lines. I don't think either really has a place in EU5. It's better to accept some abstraction than try to simulate the complexity of looting for supplies, individual army supply wagons, etc.
But that's exactly what Sweden did. They had an early form of national conscription and raised troops all over the country and sent them over to Germany in the 30 years war. This is also ho wars were usually fought in America. France and England raised armies at home and sent them over to fight. Sure they lost large amounts during the voyage bit that's already in the game (also people hate it which is always funny because it's actually one of the most historical parts of the game).
 
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I think the army system is pretty good, I think it would be a mistake to radically change it for EU5. If fact if it was viable I would have liked more micromanagement of armies and battles, but I can see why that would be challenging.
 
I like how they usually say that Devs read the forum suggestions but this post show how this is definitely false and the director carefully didn't bother reading anything more than the title of this one.

yeah, I should stop writing replies on my iphone. I didn't read it well enough, but now that I've read it, there is a lot of great replies in this thread explaining why its not a great idea.

logistics is something that is important for warfare though, and I think only 3 games we have ever made at Paradox had any sort of logistics system.. hoi3 from the start (which had a shitty UI for it), and HoI4 and Imperator getting it in later patches.