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Wishing_Well

First Lieutenant
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Apr 4, 2004
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New Game, New Thread.

Our group has started a new 36 GC with the 1.2 enhancement.
(The previous game to a halt both because 1.2 came out and we encountered a bug that would not let us go further.)
All original players have returned and some new ones have joined us.
 
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Players were:

Germany - Capitan
France - Wishing Well
Italy - Frostfather
UK - Crub/Cyril
Japan - Tokern
China - Outburst
SU - Ister
Poland - Waihti (thats me :p)

Think we stopped in Sep 37. Europe is still quiet (nat spain won the civil war) but we have a little war crisis in Asia. Cause Tokern and Outburst had to leave a little bit earlier the AI took over and Japan soon dowd china. Japan seems to make good progress and has taken alot of costal provinces.

See u next Tuesday
 
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Yeah good game last time. :)

Do we postphone one week or do I need to find a suitable sub for germany?

Two questions that I would like answered:
1) Can russia choose not accept molotov-ribbentrop pact?
2) How is the vichy-event handled?

If the answer to 1 is yes then Germany will maybe declare war before Danzig event. I will at least want to know when I make my strategy.

Sorry for the outburst regarding spain last time but it makes me very frustrated when we speak so highly of how historical our game will be and then at the first moment we choose to ignore that. I would like it to be an historical intent of a simulation. Anyway, hope I did not ruffle any feathers to badly. :)
 
Seems to me we played the Spanish Civil War pretty historically.

Keep in mind that whatever France does it takes dissent on that event. The french government merely decided to send some foods to the republicans, but have vetoed any military help: no french troops involved, no techs shared, and no alliance.

The way we have played so far will lead to one of the spanish side winning over the other, and then Spain not being on any side when war breaks out. Historically acurate I would say.
 
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Better to postpone

Finding a sub for Germany was already bad enough in itself, but well, with two players not available next tuesday (may 3rd) then I think it is best to skip that day.

Now to answer your other questions:

-As far as answers to multiple choice questions you are free to do what you think is best for you. So SU may indeed refuse M-R pact.

-In the event Vichy triggers I will not reject it.
 
The end of the civil war was historical but mainly the UK and to some extent France sending any aid was not. Out of fear from an German reaction (among other things) they did not send anything. They even blockaded spain.

So having russia being able to refuse the ribbentrop-pact may lead to war a lot earlier. The pact is the main reason for me to wait so long. Especially now that France and Poland are just beginning to gear for war.
 
Sorry for the outburst regarding spain last time but it makes me very frustrated when we speak so highly of how historical our game will be and then at the first moment we choose to ignore that. I would like it to be an historical intent of a simulation. Anyway, hope I did not ruffle any feathers to badly.
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Hey, np. WW and I have played a lot of 36's in the past, and perhaps some 'rules' considering what's historical that we are used to, might be different then your idea of that.

Most of the groups I played in consider a 'historic' 36 to be along these lines:
> No mayor war till Danzig (exception: Japan may attack China, Italy may attack Albania prior);
> Before mayor events (Austria / Chech), the game is saved. Should there be an unhistoric outcome (Chech resists for instance), the German player may opt to reload;
> Entry date for US is limmited (either tied to Japan and/or a fixed date, this to prevent the US entering very early on);
> French player must accept Vichy when offered, SU must accept Bitter Peace if offered.

These house rules where pretty straight from HOI1. For HOI2, we added restrictions on trade (to prevent the Allies from cornering the market in certain resources), and as SU was quite powerfull in 2.1.1, we gave Germany the option to decide no, limmited or full pact of MR, each with an 'expiry date', the longest for the Full, and none for the No Pact. Afte rexpiration, the parties are allowed to DOW each other.

Should the SU be toned down somewhat in the new patch, I would prefer to keep the negotiations on the pact in the hands of the SU and German player. The SU might be willing to negotiate as they get some nice new territories if Full Pact, and need more time to organise their forces in 1.2.
 
Kyril said:
Hey, np. WW and I have played a lot of 36's in the past, and perhaps some 'rules' considering what's historical that we are used to, might be different then your idea of that.

Most of the groups I played in consider a 'historic' 36 to be along these lines:
> No mayor war till Danzig (exception: Japan may attack China, Italy may attack Albania prior);
> Before mayor events (Austria / Chech), the game is saved. Should there be an unhistoric outcome (Chech resists for instance), the German player may opt to reload;
> Entry date for US is limmited (either tied to Japan and/or a fixed date, this to prevent the US entering very early on);
> French player must accept Vichy when offered, SU must accept Bitter Peace if offered.

These house rules where pretty straight from HOI1. For HOI2, we added restrictions on trade (to prevent the Allies from cornering the market in certain resources), and as SU was quite powerfull in 2.1.1, we gave Germany the option to decide no, limmited or full pact of MR, each with an 'expiry date', the longest for the Full, and none for the No Pact. Afte rexpiration, the parties are allowed to DOW each other.

Should the SU be toned down somewhat in the new patch, I would prefer to keep the negotiations on the pact in the hands of the SU and German player. The SU might be willing to negotiate as they get some nice new territories if Full Pact, and need more time to organise their forces in 1.2.
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Ok fine. These houserules are good to know. But they seem more or less ok. That means however than in any given option you can choose whatever you like so long it does not violate those 4 very basic houserules?

I also think that the fascist you be able to declare war earlier only to keep France and Poland honest. Like our game now both Poland and France are so sure that war will come in 39 and have not at all expanded their armies, should not Germany be able to punish them for their folly?
 
Capitan said:
Ok fine. These houserules are good to know. But they seem more or less ok. That means however than in any given option you can choose whatever you like so long it does not violate those 4 very basic houserules?
Click to expand...

Yes, you got the right idea.

Capitan said:
I also think that the fascist you be able to declare war earlier only to keep France and Poland honest. Like our game now both Poland and France are so sure that war will come in 39 and have not at all expanded their armies, should not Germany be able to punish them for their folly?
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What do you mean by honest?

Speaking of history do you really think that the democraties started mobilizing conscripts as soon as '37?
 
Ok fine. These houserules are good to know. But they seem more or less ok. That means however than in any given option you can choose whatever you like so long it does not violate those 4 very basic houserules?

I also think that the fascist you be able to declare war earlier only to keep France and Poland honest. Like our game now both Poland and France are so sure that war will come in 39 and have not at all expanded their armies, should not Germany be able to punish them for their folly?
Click to expand...

I would like a 36 which could be played like that, ideally without any houserules besides the obvious exploits. Thing is, a lot of the events and the game mechanics are aimed at roughly historic play. In order to give the Axis a chance, the events provide a way for the Axis to conquer territory without getting to high beligerrence early on (which gets US in the war), and restricts the Allies (peacetime modifier in IC).

Also, if we allow Germany to have the flexibility to start the war whenever, shouldnt the same apply to the Allies and SU? By getting involved in some pathetic little war on the globe, the UK can use around 190 IC instead of 77 early on, and with lower upgrade and Supply costs, it can field an army to stop Germany from getting anywhere in W-Europe.
 
Wishing_Well said:
Yes, you got the right idea.



What do you mean by honest?

Speaking of history do you really think that the democraties started mobilizing conscripts as soon as '37?
Click to expand...

Ok good. Then I think we should have stated that regarding our view on an historic game from the start. Anyway the issue is moot. So lets move on :)

Honest? Like in not knowing when disaster will strike you cannot prepare for one specific date (i.e. sep 1 -39) so you will have to kinda do many things at once.

Mobilizing conscripts in 37? No. But building an army, an airforce and a fleet from 36 to 39? Yes. So far both Poland and France has been so sure that war will not happen until that pre-set date that no armies have been built. I can only assume that France and Poland are waiting for the 39-inf to start mass-producing instead of building 36's to upgrade.

I might be wrong in my assumptions that come from monitoring the statistics.

I would like to have the democracies guessing what the madman in Berlin (i.e me ;) ) will do. I do not want them to be able to plan their production down to the last IC.

Maybe I am arrogant to think this but I would at least want everyone to know how I am thinking about it and maybe offer their own view.

Cheers,

Jesper
 
Kyril said:
I would like a 36 which could be played like that, ideally without any houserules besides the obvious exploits. Thing is, a lot of the events and the game mechanics are aimed at roughly historic play. In order to give the Axis a chance, the events provide a way for the Axis to conquer territory without getting to high beligerrence early on (which gets US in the war), and restricts the Allies (peacetime modifier in IC).

Also, if we allow Germany to have the flexibility to start the war whenever, shouldnt the same apply to the Allies and SU? By getting involved in some pathetic little war on the globe, the UK can use around 190 IC instead of 77 early on, and with lower upgrade and Supply costs, it can field an army to stop Germany from getting anywhere in W-Europe.
Click to expand...

I am not refering to some gamey declaration of war against Botswana, I am talking about the big one, the general war that could be started earlier because Germany feels that France, Poland or England has not built an army while Germany has done presicly that.

As you point out in the beginning of the post is that the cost will be territories gained for "free" by events.
 
Will try to be in time.
I also want to say that i will be away for two weeks (vacation).
Might be time to get another player for small italy, if one is found maybe he wants to play from today, before war is started?

Cheers
/Frostfather
 
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