Events for 'Doomed States'

[Gorgo Primus]

I think we need to take a good look at all events for states that historically were annexed or fell apart and their event chains and make sure we are being fair to those who play them (and that events for them are contextually correct).

As an example with 'The Fall of The City of Victory' for Vijayanagar:

3823. The Fall of The City of Victory
Vijayanagar -- Not random
Conditions

* None of the following must occur:
o Control Bangalore
* At least one of the following must occur:
o Golconda and Vijayanagar are at war
o Bijapur and Vijayanagar are at war
o Ahmadnagar and Vijayanagar are at war
o Bahmanid Empire and Vijayanagar are at war
o Rebel Scum controls Bangalore

Will happen within 5 days of January 2, 1565
Checked again every 5 days until trigger is met (cannot happen after December 31, 1819)
Description
A combination of internal dissention and foreign attack has resulted in armies marching upon our capital in a lightning-quick campaign! Vijayanagar has been subjected to a thorough three-month sack, resulting in the complete disruption of the government, the massive loss of revenue, and the collapse of our authority in the provinces!
Actions

A. Cut our losses and regroup

* Global revolt risk +10 for 120 months
* tamil will no longer be an accepted culture
* Centralization -3
* Fortress level in the capital province -1
* Grant independence to Bijapur
* Grant independence to Golconda
* Grant independence to Ikkeri
* Grant independence to Madurai
* Grant independence to Gingee
* Grant independence to Cochin
* Grant independence to Calicut
* Grant independence to Travancore
* Grant independence to Mysore
* Grant independence to Haihaya
* Grant independence to Gondwana
* Grant independence to Malwa
* Grant independence to Ahmadnagar
* Grant independence to Gujarat
* Gain a temporary casus belli against Mysore for 60 months
* Gain a temporary casus belli against Golconda for 60 months
* Cede Odisa to Bengal
* Cede Berhampur to Bengal
* Cede Bombay to Ahmadnagar
* Cede Goa to Bijapur
* Cede Maharashtra to Bijapur
* Cede Bastar to Golconda
* Cede Palakimedi to Orissa
* Cede Yanam to Golconda
* Event 392000 - The Fall of The City of Victory for Gingee is triggered immediately
* Event 371000 - The Fall of The City of Victory for Ikkeri is triggered immediately
* Event 362000 - The Fall of The City of Victory for Madurai is triggered immediately
* Event 238000 - The Fall of The City of Victory for Mysore is triggered immediately

B. Protect the whole nation!

* Global revolt risk +20 for 120 months
* Stability -8
* -400 gold
* Infrastructure tech investment: -1000
* Trade tech investment: -1000
* -400 relations with Golconda
* -400 relations with Mysore
* Global revolt risk +15 for 60 months
* Lose 5000 troops in a random province
* Lose 5000 troops in a random province
* Hyderabad revolts
* Hyderabad revolts
* Hyderabad revolts
* Mysore revolts
* Mysore revolts
* Mysore revolts
* Malwa revolts
* Malwa revolts
* Gujarat revolts
* Gujarat revolts
* Yanam revolts
* Yanam revolts
* Mangalore revolts
* Mangalore revolts
* Kerala revolts
* Kerala revolts
* Cochin revolts
* Cochin revolts
* Trivandrum revolts
* Trivandrum revolts
* Madurai revolts
* Madurai revolts
* Pondicherry revolts
* Pondicherry revolts

This is pretty much the negative stereotype that EU3 fans give EU2 summed up in a single event. No way out of it, ruins you forever, can't really be avoided, no real in-game context taken into account.

We need to hunt down these for countries and fix/replace them.

Discuss.

 

[Garbon]

If you've annexed the Deccan plateau by that date (which most players will have) or are good relations with those states, you are in the clear. Well unless your capital is taken over by rebels.

 

[Gorgo Primus]

There are plenty others like this and they can't all be blown off like that.

You really think that a Vijayanagar player should have to have a doomstack on their capital at all times and/or take over half of India in order not to die?

 

[MichaelM]

Can the deathdate at least be pushed back to 1600 or so? Or maybe have more stringent triggers after a while?

 

[Gorgo Primus]

I think we need to take a look at triggers for allot of events. In 1586 France briefly took my capital in a war (me as Brittany) and all of a sudden they got cores on me. I had no RM with them, I was leading an Alliance that had the GB and Spain, I was winning, it was 1586(!) and I had chosen to marry the Austrian candidate (which didn't do anything).

I'm sure every country has at least one event that needs its triggers redone.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

I'm sure every country has at least one event that needs its triggers redone.

There is indeed always room for enhancement and we now have a better script engine for more refined triggers and actions.

 

[Jayavarman]

I need to review my fantasy Cambodian chain of events. They may look very silly, having suited my fancy and bias in 2002. :wacko:

 

[Bordic]

There is indeed always room for enhancement and we now have a better script engine for more refined triggers and actions.

When for a new "Harvard's guide" ?

Should we refine already scripted events too? In past dev diaries I have read some announcements about Burgundian heritage events and new scripting commands which would simplify those triggers in order to cover more chains of events.

 

[Gorgo Primus]

I am personally going to make it my mission to fix up Brittany's events so that marrying the right person actually has a chance of saving you instead of the current system where at the very least France will always get cores on you no matter what.

 

[birdboy2000]

On a related note, could anything be done about the diplo ratings of permanent monarchs - making sure they're at least high enough to be playable? A Taborite Republic just isn't any fun, for instance.

 

[Kiesenberg]

I agree that some events need changing for doomed nations. I think that the should be possibilities for countries that didn't succeed in real life to do so in the game. Burgundy giving away most of its provinces to France and liberating most of the rest is another good example of something that should be more easily avoidable.

 

[unmerged(56465)]

On this note, the Mamluk related events are crippling to Cyprus almost right off the bat. Losing 100 ducats as such a small country as well as some base tax is no small deal. The biggest problem, of course, is that there is absolutely no way to avoid them. Which is a shame, because Cyprus seems like a fun little country with potential, what with its cores on Outremer and later in Europe.

 

[unmerged(189386)]

Lots of Awkwardness Here

I'm starting to see where the EU3 players are coming from. Without AGCEEP EU2 loses a lot of flavor as there isn't enough going on. With AGCEEP there are a lot of awkward event fails, that can completely destroy a game you are well into.

Like for instance, random doomstack events like this one, or financial hammerings against Cyprus, or even having a bunch of awkward trigger/fail to trigger situations with a sequence of events after parts don't happen.

Also much of the rating swings seem ludicrous some events have multiple +400's attached to them basically bitter enemies become best friends overnight, regardless of history to that point. There is something to be said for +200 events that occur with war concessions (typically -199 -200 to neutrallish) but +400 seems ridiculous.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

On this note, the Mamluk related events are crippling to Cyprus almost right off the bat. Losing 100 ducats as such a small country as well as some base tax is no small deal. The biggest problem, of course, is that there is absolutely no way to avoid them. Which is a shame, because Cyprus seems like a fun little country with potential, what with its cores on Outremer and later in Europe.

There should always be a way to avoid an event. The event you mention should be able to be avoided if you destroy the Mamluks or they get annexed by someone else before your event fires. Good luck for that however

Making it easy to avoid events that historically happened was never the intention of AGCEEP as you can read here:
http://www.agceep.net/introduction.htm#Mission

Playing countries that historically were pushed around by more powerful countries and eventually vanished from the political map should not be a cakewalk but a challenge. If you want a game without heavy penalties then perhaps playing a nation that did historically survive could be more rewarding to you.

However those -100 ducats are not really a problem. Two years before that event Cyprus has an other event in which it gets +50 ducats. Complaining about events in which you lose money as gamebreaking but accepting events in which you gain money as normal?

Edit:
I suggesest a minor change of that event in the EU2 AGCEEP thread here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11068118&postcount=69