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But torturing them moves them closer to being dead. Also, uncertain what is meant about "dread", or are you referring to what might be in CK3?
Theres a new fear mechanic in CK3 were if you are harsh and cruel and tyrannical your vessels will dislike you same as in CK2. But now they will also fear you and be afraid to rise up against you. If you look at the character and family screenshot they gave us there is a little iron fist that is going to show this value
 
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@Andrzej I I found a picture and have an arrow pointing to it.
 
Theres a new fear mechanic in CK3 were if you are harsh and cruel and tyrannical your vessels will dislike you same as in CK2. But now they will also fear you and be afraid to rise up against you. If you look at the character and family screenshot they gave us there is a little iron fist that is going to show this value
Ah yes, that mechanic. Torture could definitely play to that. I suppose I was looking back at CK2 and wondering what value torture had for it. My thanks, though, for the response!
 
Ah yes, that mechanic. Torture could definitely play to that. I suppose I was looking back at CK2 and wondering what value torture had for it. My thanks, though, for the response!
No worries. In CK2 torture was mainly used because of the tryanny penalty for execution, so I would use torture to try and get a serious injury or out right kill them if o could.

But I've not used it on a few years so I don't remember all the details or costs.
 
As I've said before, if a vassal kills your children-like the Count of X killing all five of the Emperor's sons-and is caught doing so, you, as the Ruler, should be able to execute the bastard without outraging the entire world.

And...yes, the execution should be one of the most miserable, and protracted, executions sadistic humanity can devise.
 
As I've said before, if a vassal kills your children-like the Count of X killing all five of the Emperor's sons-and is caught doing so, you, as the Ruler, should be able to execute the bastard without outraging the entire world.

And...yes, the execution should be one of the most miserable, and protracted, executions sadistic humanity can devise.
Strongly agreed. In the medival period executions was a fairly common and expected.

It was even a spectacle and event that everyone attended and that's just not represented in CK2 at all with how much your discouraged from executing people in your own realm.
 
you, as the Ruler, should be able to execute the bastard without outraging the entire world.

Not only that, if you are playing anywhere in Asia (India and Persia in particular), you should be able to execute their entire close family. All three great civilizations of Asia (India, China, Persia) had rulers going after entire families of anyone who committed some great transgression, and this in fact continued well into EU4 times.

If that is too much, you should still be able to freely execute the criminal and exile their entire family instead.

Note - this only applies to close relatives, not entire dynasty.
 
Strongly agreed. In the medival period executions was a fairly common and expected.

It was even a spectacle and event that everyone attended and that's just not represented in CK2 at all with how much your discouraged from executing people in your own realm.
Not so sure about that. For instance, even with all the rebellions and insurrections, even after conquering all of England from the Saxons, William the Conqueror only executed one native lord: Waltheof of Northumbria. Plenty were imprisoned, exiled, etc., but to execute a noble was considered something of an extreme. One need must remember, even our "lowborn" dynasty courtiers are still nobility, baring the occasional peasant rebel leader that rises up, who always can be executed due to their treason. Let's not delve into some revisionism here to claim that executions were common entertainment.
 
Not so sure about that. For instance, even with all the rebellions and insurrections, even after conquering all of England from the Saxons, William the Conqueror only executed one native lord: Waltheof of Northumbria. Plenty were imprisoned, exiled, etc., but to execute a noble was considered something of an extreme. One need must remember, even our "lowborn" dynasty courtiers are still nobility, baring the occasional peasant rebel leader that rises up, who always can be executed due to their treason. Let's not delve into some revisionism here to claim that executions were common entertainment.
Yes, completely agree, and Waltheof is indeed a good (and interesting) example here.

In fact, the relative scarcity of European rulers executing one another was one of the reasons I made this thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/decision-request-tonsure-claimant.1264925/
 
Really looking forward to the whole 'rule by fear'-concept. Something that is really missing in CKII.

Hopefully, the traits have more depth and meaning in CKIII than just stats.
I want my Cruel and Paranoid king to rule by tyranny, not have to worry about it.
 
Not so sure about that. For instance, even with all the rebellions and insurrections, even after conquering all of England from the Saxons, William the Conqueror only executed one native lord: Waltheof of Northumbria. Plenty were imprisoned, exiled, etc., but to execute a noble was considered something of an extreme. One need must remember, even our "lowborn" dynasty courtiers are still nobility, baring the occasional peasant rebel leader that rises up, who always can be executed due to their treason. Let's not delve into some revisionism here to claim that executions were common entertainment.

The case I was referring to, the one where a count murdered five of the Emperor's sons, one right after the other-getting caught red handed each and every time-was likewise an extreme case.

Certainly, in most cases, imprisoning and revoking seem to be the normal run of things. But sometimes, CK2 has given us characters, AI-run and Player-run, of such exceptional depravity that horribly tortuous execution is the only sensible response.

And there are indications that CK3 won't be any different in that regard. I'm not asking that we should be allowed to execute every single wrongdoer we come across. Just the worst of the absolute worst...
 
Aye, and not disagreeing with that extreme circumstance, but even then, the idea of executions being a public spectacle is a bit wrong, especially when it comes to nobles. That was more what I was disagreeing with, though in the circumstance you laid out, I could see that perhaps being the case.
 
Aye, and not disagreeing with that extreme circumstance, but even then, the idea of executions being a public spectacle is a bit wrong, especially when it comes to nobles. That was more what I was disagreeing with, though in the circumstance you laid out, I could see that perhaps being the case.
It doesn't need to be a public execution. Could be held privately, in the Tower, like a lot of noble executions were handled.

But, historically, there were a few exceptions to the rule, one of which was Hugh Dispenser...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Despenser_the_younger
 
Not so sure about that. For instance, even with all the rebellions and insurrections, even after conquering all of England from the Saxons, William the Conqueror only executed one native lord: Waltheof of Northumbria. Plenty were imprisoned, exiled, etc., but to execute a noble was considered something of an extreme. One need must remember, even our "lowborn" dynasty courtiers are still nobility, baring the occasional peasant rebel leader that rises up, who always can be executed due to their treason. Let's not delve into some revisionism here to claim that executions were common entertainment.
I admit I may be mixing some of modern medias interpretations in but revisionist history is not what im aiming for on this thread.
The case I was referring to, the one where a count murdered five of the Emperor's sons, one right after the other-getting caught red handed each and every time-was likewise an extreme case.

Certainly, in most cases, imprisoning and revoking seem to be the normal run of things. But sometimes, CK2 has given us characters, AI-run and Player-run, of such exceptional depravity that horribly tortuous execution is the only sensible response.

And there are indications that CK3 won't be any different in that regard. I'm not asking that we should be allowed to execute every single wrongdoer we come across. Just the worst of the absolute worst...
Agreed not every one in the dungeons should be executed but I fell the current CK2 system is too restrictive.
Aye, and not disagreeing with that extreme circumstance, but even then, the idea of executions being a public spectacle is a bit wrong, especially when it comes to nobles. That was more what I was disagreeing with, though in the circumstance you laid out, I could see that perhaps being the case.
And thos is probably where modern media has influenced my misconceptions about it been done in public.

But there are certainly cases of public executions, notably William Wallace was publicly hung drawn and quartered.
 
I admit I may be mixing some of modern medias interpretations in but revisionist history is not what im aiming for on this thread.

Agreed not every one in the dungeons should be executed but I fell the current CK2 system is too restrictive.

And thos is probably where modern media has influenced my misconceptions about it been done in public.

But there are certainly cases of public executions, notably William Wallace was publicly hung drawn and quartered.
Aye, and I pray you don't misinterpret me as meaning that you were aiming for revisionism, merely that you were - as you say - perhaps misled by modern media :)

And yes, I do agree that CK2's system is far too restrictive, handing out tyranny rather generously for punishing criminals. That said, imprisonment and banishment seem to be the most common punishments of the era, along with blinding. Outright executions seem fairly rare.
 
As I've said before, if a vassal kills your children-like the Count of X killing all five of the Emperor's sons-and is caught doing so, you, as the Ruler, should be able to execute the bastard without outraging the entire world.

And...yes, the execution should be one of the most miserable, and protracted, executions sadistic humanity can devise.

It would also be nice if a possible tyranny modifier didn't apply if the council (or perhaps parliament *nudge nudge nudge*) voted in favor of the execution. The downside of that is that it would require some sort of mechanic to see if the council was actually qualified and not full of yesmen to avoid the player going full Stalin and purging the nobility.
 
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Aye, and I pray you don't misinterpret me as meaning that you were aiming for revisionism, merely that you were - as you say - perhaps misled by modern media :)

And yes, I do agree that CK2's system is far too restrictive, handing out tyranny rather generously for punishing criminals. That said, imprisonment and banishment seem to be the most common punishments of the era, along with blinding. Outright executions seem fairly rare.
As far as I remember banishment has near enough the exact same restrictions and executing people. Maybe slightly lifting the restrictions a little on execution so you can execute the people who deserve ot. Those discovered to having had your close family members murdered. Or lords who started a faction and lost the resulting civil war.

And make banishment much more accessible to better represent the punishments of the period
 
It would also be nice if a possible tyranny modifier didn't apply if the council (or perhaps parliament *nudge nudge nudge*) voted in favor of the execution. The downside of that is that it would require some sort of mechanic to see if the council was actually qualified and not full of yesmen to avoid the player going full Stalin and purging the nobility.
It should be possible to deal with the downside by having previous recent executions contribute to the choice of voting for, or against the execution, i.e. the more executions that have taken place in the recent past (~several years), the less likely they are to vote yes. This naturally means that council members vote should not be decided by them being loyalists, ect... (st least not only), but on multiple factors, such as previous executions, morality/character and relationship with executer and executee.
 
"For two centuries after the Conquest, the frank, open rebellions of the great folk were treated with a clemency which, when we look back to it through the intervening ages of blood, seem wonderful."

The structure and function of civil conflict is a subject of some fascination to me, particularly in the context in which we find ourselves in Crusader Kings II and III. The above quote and the example of Waltheof, Earl of Northumbria stand for England, but that's not to say that the Norman conquerors were an entirely forgiving breed. The conspiracy to overthrow William Rufus and crown Stephen of Aumale gives us this memorable sentence for one of the conspirators: "the king ordered William of Eu who had been defeated in a duel to have his eyes put out and to be castrated, and his steward, William of Aldrie, the son of his aunt, and privy to his treason, to be hanged." And it's not just CK2 players who deliberately let people languish in their dungeons until death, King John did it, too: "The Annals of Margam state that William de Braose the younger, with his wife, several sons, and Matilda his mother, were captured by John in Ireland, and first imprisoned at Bristol, and afterwards at Windsor. Fifty thousand marks were fixed as the price of their redemption. William the father being allowed his liberty in order to obtain the ransom, fled to France, and thereupon the king starved his wife and son to death."

Jourdain de l'Isle-Jourdain, lord of Casaubon, married to a niece of the French pope John XXII, was hanged for rape, rapine, and murder in 1323, but the exceptional nature of the act was noted even in his own time. "One cannot remember nor can one find it written in the gestes of France that a man as high-born as my lord Jourdain has ever suffered such a death since the time of Ganelon." Execution was, and should be, a rare punishment for the high and low nobility. But I'm not saying to let them go with a slap on the wrist and a warning not to get caught next time: executions were rare, because actions deemed sufficiently heinous as to deserve it were also rare. Exile, fines, imprisonment, and confiscation were all customary means to deal with political rivals that sought to orchestrate one's removal from the throne: this is a cost of doing business. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown, and all that. Pointedly, conspiracies to revolt are rather more likely than conspiracies to commit infanticide.

Still, a vein of ruthlessness can be found in rulers of the age, even when it came those with rank equal to their own. Charles of Anjou, that fabulous adventurer and conqueror of Sicily, had Conradin, his 16-year old rival for the Sicilian crown (nephew to king Manfred, dead in battle against Charles' army), and also duke of Swabia and king of Jerusalem, beheaded alongside his close companion Frederick, Margrave of Baden. Count Giordano Lancia, two counts Gherardesca, and several other close advisors and supporters died with them. Pope Clement IV is said to have signed off on the sentence, to boot: "The life of Conradin is the death of Charles; the death of Conradin is the life of Charles." If a ruler is sufficiently ruthless and his grasp on the throne sufficiently perilous, then he may take extraordinary measures to permanently end the claims of his rivals. See also: Richard III and his nephews. King Ramiro II of Aragon presents us with a similar example: "When they had arrived in Huesca, the king ordered certain of his confidential servants to arm themselves in the chamber, and he told them what they were to do there. When the nobles and knights had arrived, he ordered them to be called to council individually, one after the other. When they entered this room, he ordered those inside to be beheaded immediately. Only those who were guilty in their actions toward him were so called. In this fashion, twelve knights and nobles were beheaded before the king dined. In truth, he would have beheaded all the other nobles and knights, except that those who were outside somehow found out what was happening, and fled. When these were dead, the others who had fled were powerless, and Ramiro's realm remained quiet, and in security and peace."

In short, a great deal should depend on the context of the offense, the laws of the realm, and the king's character. Yes, you should be able to freely execute those who've taken the blood of the royal family in an act of naked murder, but such crimes should also be extremely rare. In terms of more conventional conflict, a realm with a high degree of baronial independence and a tradition of autonomy is unlikely to countenance the killing of your political opponents even after a rebellion. A king fresh to the throne, crown unsteady on his head, might get away with fearful acts of brutality, cowing the nobility into obedience for some years to come, but may face consequences later in his reign for his harsh actions. Ramiro II of Aragon gave up his realm in favor of his son-in-law to retreat to monastic life shortly after cementing control of the realm. Charles of Anjou was expelled from Sicily by an uprising, the infamous Sicilian Vespers. King John faced the Barons' War and the Magna Carta and ultimately died on campaign.