Expanded Diplomatic Options

[Drachenfire]

Diplomatic requests:


In Cool Toxic's CK inspired Dark Ages Dynasties I had offered these additional diplomatic options. What do you think?

1. (For war or peace) Demand of the other to change their succession law to match yours.
•This option would demand one ruler to change his succession law to match the succession law of another. The one changing his succession law would still subject to the various events that occur for a succession change. Rejection of the request could damage relations.

2. (For war or peace) Demand hostages for good conduct.
•This option would allow the player to scroll down a list of courtiers in the rival court, and demand so and so as a hostage. The number of potential hostages could be determined by a war score and or prestige, with the hostages themselves valued by how close they are in the line of succession. The hostage could be a youth or and adult, but the hostage would then go to the victor's court. There, he would remain until the victor sends him home. If the rival rebels or goes to war, then the ruler may blind the hostage (Henry II did this once to a slew of various Welsh children, while King John had hanged a bunch of Welsh children.), thus disinheriting them from any succession, or he may have them executed. Rejection of the request could damage relations.


3. (For war or peace) Demand the return of a hostage.
•Rejection of the request could damage relations

4. (For war or peace) Demand the conversion to your faith.
•This would allow the victor to demand the conversion of the loser to convert to their faith or sect of belief. (this assumes you could create a matrix for religious conversions of players, and also assumes that you may allow many more religious faiths to be present) Rejection of the request could damage relations

5. (For war or peace) Demand a vassal
•This would transfer one vassal to the rule of the victor. A king could only demand a duke, or a count directly ruled by a king or a duke. A duke could only demand a count directly ruled by a duke or king he is at war with. Rejection of the request could damage relations

6. (For war or peace) Offer a vassal or territory.
•This would allow one ruler to offer a territory directly ruled by him voluntarily to another ruler.

7. Request to join in a war or crusade
•Self explanatory. Rejection of the request could damage relations

8 Request to establish a trade route between x and y
•This option would request to establish a trade route between x province and y province, within reason of Corse. No trade route direct from Edinburgh to Byzantium. But Edinburgh to Nantes, or Dyfed to Galacia, might be plausible. Rejection of the request could damage relations

10. Request aid in a war.
•Basically, requests the aid from another ruler in a war, either by money donation or a declaration of war. Rejection of the request could damage relations

11. Mediatization
•Basically, one ruler offers or demands of another for them to become his vassal. But mediatization is the term for one king to vassalize another. With this, I suggest that a very powerful king (not quite an emperor) might be able to demand the vassalization of another king. Prehaps this mediatized king may have his own kingship title change to "Prince". Rejection of the request could damage relations

•An example would be for the King of England to mediatize the King of Wales. Once vassalized, the King of Wales would have his title change to that of "Prince" during the tenure of his mediatization.

 

[sortulv]

12. Request the making of peace.
One could act as a mediator to make others end their war. This is espesially useful for lieges that don't want their kingdoms torn apart by internal strife, but could also work to force an aggressive lord to stop his war (which could create a too powerful state).

 

[LordofSaxony]

Diplomatic Hostages: Wards

Would you guys like to see wards being used as a diplomatic tool? Basically, there could be an option to secure an alliance through trading "offspring" to another court, so it keeps the two kingdoms from going to war with each other. It's sort of like an insurance policy of sorts, since if they go to war then the wards would be imprisoned and/or executed.

Perhaps this can be a part of a peace agreement while in a state of war, check the "ward" box and it will send a ward of the highest ranking child. Imagine, another kingdom attacks you, yet you just want to live in peace and tranquility, so you pound them with your military and finally break their back. They try to make a peace agreement with you, but you do not accept the terms, instead you click the "ward" option, and hesitantly they agree to it. With the peace agreement secured, they send their royal daughter to your court to live for the duration of the peace agreement. If they attack again, you can imprison or execute the character without any ill effects.

Thoughts?

Edit: Just noticed it was already mentioned!

 

[Ruwaard]

I like these diplomatic options, but I personally do not like a general rule were a mediatized king becomes a prince, I would prefer them to keep the title of king.

 

[Drachenfire]

I like these diplomatic options, but I personally do not like a general rule were a mediatized king becomes a prince, I would prefer them to keep the title of king.

*nod* I'm cool with the use of "king" too for mediatised kings.

 

[Drachenfire]

Would you guys like to see wards being used as a diplomatic tool? Basically, there could be an option to secure an alliance through trading "offspring" to another court, so it keeps the two kingdoms from going to war with each other. It's sort of like an insurance policy of sorts, since if they go to war then the wards would be imprisoned and/or executed.

Perhaps this can be a part of a peace agreement while in a state of war, check the "ward" box and it will send a ward of the highest ranking child. Imagine, another kingdom attacks you, yet you just want to live in peace and tranquility, so you pound them with your military and finally break their back. They try to make a peace agreement with you, but you do not accept the terms, instead you click the "ward" option, and hesitantly they agree to it. With the peace agreement secured, they send their royal daughter to your court to live for the duration of the peace agreement. If they attack again, you can imprison or execute the character without any ill effects.

Thoughts?

Edit: Just noticed it was already mentioned!

Your talking about the hostages diplomatic option? Yes, wardship has a more pleasent ring to it, lol. But hostages can mean that even adut heirs/courtiers could be forced to go to the rival court.

Is this what you were meaning LordoSaxony?

 

[The Kingmaker]

All lords under the age of say, fourteen need to have someone acting as their regent. If it's their mom or their uncle, so much the better for them. However, more than likely it's a neighboring lord. They may even be present at the other lord's court and not their own. In any case there should definitely be wards in the game as well as fosterlings. The lord should collect the income of the ward's estates while he is in minority, ostensibly to pay for his sustenance. There should also be a fee the ward must pay upon reaching majority. All of this extortion of wards and their property was known as "relief."

 

[Drachenfire]

All lords under the age of say, fourteen need to have someone acting as their regent. If it's their mom or their uncle, so much the better for them. However, more than likely it's a neighboring lord. They may even be present at the other lord's court and not their own. In any case there should definitely be wards in the game as well as fosterlings. The lord should collect the income of the ward's estates while he is in minority, ostensibly to pay for his sustenance. There should also be a fee the ward must pay upon reaching majority. All of this extortion of wards and their property was known as "relief."

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with this. And also, prehaps the king would refuse to give back a title to the ward? In this scenario he can grab a title without war but risks losing loyalty? Oh wait, there won't be a loyalty factor per se, but you get the gist.

Prehaps also a king could have arranged marriages too in his capacity as guardian?

 

[Ruwaard]

About the hostages part, some hostages should try to escape, which gives their lieges an option to respond. (Both could be events).
If I'm not mistaken king John the Good of France (during the 100y's war) offered himself as an English hostage after he heard his son had escaped (which he found dishonourable..) and he actually went to the English.

 

[The Kingmaker]

About the hostages part, some hostages should try to escape, which gives their lieges an option to respond. (Both could be events).
If I'm not mistaken king John the Good of France (during the 100y's war) offered himself as an English hostage after he heard his son had escaped (which he found dishonourable..) and he actually went to the English.

Well, there should definitely be hostages as well as wards. Hostage traditions operated a little bit differently than those associated with wards though. I like your suggestion about them trying to escape. Their kinsman might also try to assist them in escaping from enemy captivity.

 

[LordofSaxony]

Your talking about the hostages diplomatic option? Yes, wardship has a more pleasent ring to it, lol. But hostages can mean that even adut heirs/courtiers could be forced to go to the rival court.

Is this what you were meaning LordoSaxony?

I was envisioning 2 different methods..

a. In a non-war aspect, you can have this as a diplomatic option to heavily secure an alliance, but doing so at the price of swapping heirs with another kingdom (you give them an heir, they give you an heir). Just hope things down go south, if you get my meaning. This would last for the duration of the agreement (1 year, 2 years, etc).

b. In a war aspect, you can dominate the enemy and force them to give you a ward, this is to insure that your enemy won't do anything stupid in the near future. If you press for peace with conditions, such as giving you land, giving you money, and so forth, this could be another option available. This would last for whatever the duration is set to during the peace agreement (1 year, 2 years, etc).

On another note, I was thinking that it would be interesting, say, if a royal daughter of your enemy is a ward at your court, and your son and heir becomes friends with her, then a secret relationship develops, and they have a bastard child together. That would be interesting!

 

[Drachenfire]

I was envisioning 2 different methods..

a. In a non-war aspect, you can have this as a diplomatic option to heavily secure an alliance, but doing so at the price of swapping heirs with another kingdom (you give them an heir, they give you an heir). Just hope things down go south, if you get my meaning. This would last for the duration of the agreement (1 year, 2 years, etc).

b. In a war aspect, you can dominate the enemy and force them to give you a ward, this is to insure that your enemy won't do anything stupid in the near future. If you press for peace with conditions, such as giving you land, giving you money, and so forth, this could be another option available. This would last for whatever the duration is set to during the peace agreement (1 year, 2 years, etc).

On another note, I was thinking that it would be interesting, say, if a royal daughter of your enemy is a ward at your court, and your son and heir becomes friends with her, then a secret relationship develops, and they have a bastard child together. That would be interesting!

I love this idea! Especially the last aspect, kinda romantic.

In my game play, I usually hold off marrying my dynasty members until their mid-twenties or so. By that time, they've formed crushes... and I love to marry them to the people they end up having a crush on! Its even better when it is a fosterling from another court!

 

[The Kingmaker]

Sounds good to me! +1