Extended timeline

[Geremin]

I am sure this one gets a lot of suggest, but I wanted to raise it after finishing a run on the most recent version of IR as Syracuse. I went Syracuse -> Sicily -> Magna Graecia -> Hellenic League (the last one was accidental as I didn't realise that's what the mission tree did). I had a blast! I think IR is a fantastic game, and particularly that it has a really robust skeleton to build further onto. Pop growth, movement, conversion, levies, legions - all fantastic. There are elements plenty to improve and flesh out; but I think the biggest one that must come up soon is to extend the timeline by about another century or so. Compared to the pacing of EUIV or CKII/III, it feels rushed and short.

At the end of my campaign I was probably the biggest, most powerful country around but it was very close - Maurya and Egypt were both of my scale and power. It felt like I was building towards a real showndown with Egypt for control of the Eastern Mediterranean, but the game was over. I know I started with a small country and so if I'd started as a big one, maybe the timeline wouldn't feel so restricting, but even with another 100 years, I wouldn't have completed a WC or anything, I just would have been able to realise the fruits of some of the work I'd done earlier in the campaign.

Basically I was left wanting way more! I'll play more campaigns of course, but I hope that some point in the next few updates we get another 100-150 years added on (at least as an option). Perhaps the way to do it would be to extend the finishing date by 150 years or so, but then add one-two new starting bookmarks slightly later - e.g. after the first Punic War, and maybe one right before the second.

 

[IsaacCAT]

You can keep playing if you want.

Devs have stated that there are no plans to implement different start dates due to the work involved.

Extending the timeline should come with content beyond the actual finish date.

There are many threads about the possible content beyond 750.

 

[Geremin]

Sure - and they can ignore if they think it's not important. I wanted to make a case. I can keep playing but the game defines its scope and people tend to accept that. It's the same for EU4 or CKIII - you can keep going if you want, but without content or achievements it isn't quite the same experience. That's why I made the suggestion and you never know - in a year or two, maybe they'll re-evaluate and you don't get anything if you don't ask for it.

 

[Don Wing]

Yes, the endate is the birth of thhe Roman Empire, the game is called Imperator, so I think it should get longer in expansions, and perhaps put some mini-ages like EUIV

Implementation of christianty is also a game breaker, as no state was christian until 313 AD.

A rework in religion had to be implemented: were de facto conversion to non-state religion should occur, apparittion of cults, die hard pop unable to convert, and so on.

A more complex in game Imperial internal affairs: Regions with more de facto autonomy, raising or taking legions to use for their own or against the state, a mechanic like Absolutism coud be in order, were more absolitism mean more centralized, and less more autonmous regions.

Economy and climate changes, natural disasters, diseases and famine. Also the decadence of philosopy and science, and the rise of endemic corruption, in a massive empire.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Definitely a fan of a larger map & longer timeline. Would make mid-game development decisions more impactful.

 

[Chehabian]

I'm not sure if I'm necessarily sold on the larger map - but I'd certainly love to see an extension on the timeline and some more events.

In fact - I want a bunch more events!

If we're going to be given late antiquity, then I want to see some more events and a lot more upheaval in the East. Also, that leads to the question of how late in the late antiquity should they extend the gameplay to? If we're talking the 300s or 400s, then we'll have to see a lot more events for migratory hordes.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

Yeah, I don't want a larger map, better to make the current one more "alive" (India, for example, lacks depth), but extended timeline? Sign me up.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I'm not sure if I'm necessarily sold on the larger map - but I'd certainly love to see an extension on the timeline and some more events.

In fact - I want a bunch more events!

If we're going to be given late antiquity, then I want to see some more events and a lot more upheaval in the East. Also, that leads to the question of how late in the late antiquity should they extend the gameplay to? If we're talking the 300s or 400s, then we'll have to see a lot more events for migratory hordes.

If you're wide and going reasonably quick there comes a time where it's pointless to improve cities or explore in the tech tree. Here's one example of why from my current campaign.
It's 545 and I'm wide.

Spoiler: Map

The Oracle @ Delphi called out 2 damnation prophecies in this game and I'd like to proceed to the tech that unlocks the +.20 legitimacy (red) and raze the oracle's temple. I know I can only have half the satisfaction I want though as I can raze her temple but not take the +..20 legitimacy law. Practically speaking, for the way I play, I have to take the Spear (green). I'm boxed in.

Spoiler: Tech Tree

I don't have to take Winning the Land by Spear, of course. I could speed 5 past quite a few repeat wars vs. Egypt and Carthage replacing a multitude of governors, office holders, and various pop up events as I go. Not that I'm opposed to the idea if there was a point as I like to play the game. If the map was wider and the timeline longer I could take my +.20 legitimacy law and also engage in repeat wars vs. Egypt and Carthage in preparation for the endgame push to the east (additional map area).

 

[Jiben]

Abit unsure on a timeline extension as you can play past the enddate, you just dont get achivements. Could be cool but might require more late game events like the yuezhi invasion or else i see no point in simply extending it. Christianity especially would need events if imperator intend to go on much longer.

The map expansion sounds great and the 2.0 patch runs better for me than the 1.5 one. That said the last 50 years or so in 1.5 were somewhat laggy for me and i have no intention of reliving that so i would appreciate some caution no matter how much i would adore china/indochina on the map.

 

[Toaster_Dust]

I'd like to see the timeline extended to 14 CE. A game called Imperator should allow you to play through the lifetime of the first emperor. I know some people want the game to cover the entirety of late antiquity, but I think getting Christianity added to the game would be iffy, Islam even more so. As it is, adding another 41 years would be nice since it'd allow people to wrap things up. It might be confirmation bias, but it seems like quite a lot of people complain about the game being too short, above what you'd usually expect since there're always going to be people who want or need just a little bit more time on the clock. I don't think it'd demand new features, but a timeline extension could come as part of a patch that adds end game features, things to do when you're big and don't feel the need to grow bigger.

 

[Poliut]

It would be interesting to see the AI handle the rise of Christianity...

And the game would probably have to also spawn the Papacy (though not necessarily the Papal States).

 

[Bovrick]

It would be interesting to see the AI handle the rise of Christianity...

And the game would probably have to also spawn the Papacy (though not necessarily the Papal States).

Only really if you're expanding the timeline 2-3 times what we already have.

 

[Toaster_Dust]

It would be interesting to see the AI handle the rise of Christianity...

And the game would probably have to also spawn the Papacy (though not necessarily the Papal States).

All the more reason to end the game before the rise of Christianity, there's too much going on mechanically and it'd be courting controversy.

 

[Geremin]

Yeah as OP I do not envision this being an extension out to fall of the Roman Empire timeframe or anything - I do not think it should go out to significant rise of Christianity - but if it went even as far as the fall of the Julio-Claudians - that's another what 100, 150 years max. I'm basically asking for the game to run to a similar timescale as EU4 or CK2 from the 1066 start date. Ballpark 400 years, where it's currently ballpark 280 years. I think this game is so good because it encourages long term investment and decision making, and I want to give it the room to let that kind of decision making play out.

 

[Poliut]

Only really if you're expanding the timeline 2-3 times what we already have.

CK has the Papacy in place by the 5th decade AD (CK2 - 42 AD, CK3 - 30 AD).

 

[Nostalgium]

All the more reason to end the game before the rise of Christianity, there's too much going on mechanically and it'd be courting controversy.

The rise of Christianity takes place several hundred years after I:R, so you could comfortably stretch another 100 without ever touching on it.

That aside, I think the current timeline is fine. If it was to be expanded, I'd not want it to be by very much - maybe the death, rather than ascension, of Augustus, so by ~40 years. At most, I'd support expansion until the end of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and Year of Four Emperors. Currently, you have to really push hard if you want to match the historical expansion of certain Empires, with you as the undisputed hegemon of your local area bordering other hegemons in theirs. This feels... fine, really. Rome ended the timeline just before conquering Egypt as its last major conquest before settling its borders - in particular the one with the Parthians/later Persians. You could even say IRL was building towards a massive confrontation between those two, then there was no significant, lasting change for 700 years. The Imperial era, the tumultous politics that followed, numerous civil wars and eventual pressure from migrations I honestly feel would be a game unto itself.

 

[Toaster_Dust]

The rise of Christianity takes place several hundred years after I:R, so you could comfortably stretch another 100 without ever touching on it.

That aside, I think the current timeline is fine. If it was to be expanded, I'd not want it to be by very much - maybe the death, rather than ascension, of Augustus, so by ~40 years. At most, I'd support expansion until the end of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and Year of Four Emperors.

Good point. If the game went to the end of the Julio-Claudian dynasty they could just have Christianity represented by pops converting to Judaism.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I know its being greedy and would possibly make Imperator the game with the longest timeline of any Paradox game but i think it should go up to the fall of the Western Roman Empire, i think this could work with the implementation of later start dates and scenarios a rework of the civil war, provincial unrest mechanic and the implementation of late game barbarian incursions to keep players entertained

The definition of Imperator I found in Wikipedia seems to agree with you in a roundabout kind of way.

The Latin word "imperator" derives from the stem of the verb imperare, meaning 'to order, to command'. It was originally employed as a title roughly equivalent to commander under the Roman Republic. Later it became a part of the titulature of the Roman Emperors as part of their cognomen. The English word emperor derives from imperator via Old French: Empereür. The Roman emperors themselves generally based their authority on multiple titles (like combining 2 game titles under 1 banner) and positions, rather than preferring any single title. Nevertheless, imperator was used relatively consistently as an element of a Roman ruler's title throughout the principate and the dominate.

Let's hope!

Edit: Extended Timeline confirmed!

Upon receiving an "Agree" on 4/19/21 and seeing Archeo's reply to the Rdddit thread "Yuezhi event, bad luck or some sort of bug," I've decided to update my impression. Arheo's Reddit ID indeed adds fuel to the fire!

This "qualitative" evidence, of course could be nothing more than conjecture or perhaps tangible evidence that I should begin drinking again. One thing for certain though, is that this image is consistent with multiple titles (combining 2 things under 1 banner).

 

[Geremin]

I know its being greedy and would possibly make Imperator the game with the longest timeline of any Paradox game but i think it should go up to the fall of the Western Roman Empire, i think this could work with the implementation of later start dates and scenarios a rework of the civil war, provincial unrest mechanic and the implementation of late game barbarian incursions to keep players entertained

Fair enough but I think this a little too far - the changes in political structures, climate factors, economy and trade etc. I think would start to make it very challenging to have a game cover that whole period with justice. The mechanics would be a bit too stretched and it would end up being quite a different game. Maybe it would work and I can't fault you for wanting it - but I think for the game as it exists, an extension by 100-150 years strikes a good balance to let the game breathe and show of its functionality without generating significantly huge changes to core mechanics.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Yes, the endate is the birth of thhe Roman Empire, the game is called Imperator, so I think it should get longer in expansions, and perhaps put some mini-ages like EUIV

Implementation of christianty is also a game breaker, as no state was christian until 313 BC.

A rework in religion had to be implemented: were de facto conversion to non-state religion should occur, apparittion of cults, die hard pop unable to convert, and so on.

A more complex in game Imperial internal affairs: Regions with more de facto autonomy, raising or taking legions to use for their own or against the state, a mechanic like Absolutism coud be in order, were more absolitism mean more centralized, and less more autonmous regions.

Economy and climate changes, natural disasters, diseases and famine. Also the decadence of philosopy and science, and the rise of endogamic corruption, in a massive empire.

...Endogamic corruption? Like, the poor King Charles II of Spain?