Factions 101

[Elgareth]

I find it odd that you talk about dvar but no one mentioned their ramjet yet. It's their first unit research, and this thing terrifies me. It has a missile, which means they actually have artillery as their first researched unit. They're the first to get a flyer, and it's an artillery unit reaching at 10.

They are IMO an odd race to play, oscillating between going melee and forcing you to come to them. They will annihilate any cover you can have or have them useless. They have many units to go close and personal. Yet they have units that are the definition of position warfare. When I see their roster, I feel like they want a trench warfare from ww1. They can trech and annihilate anything that come close, and they can force you to do that. Or they can assault your fortifications like nothing else can.

I need to test them more, but they feel very interesting.

Yeah, I just finished a 12 player scenario with Promethean Dvar, and kind of changed my opinion on them.
Though I basically only used trenchers, the promethean infantry and foremen, with the fire AoE mod on the trenchers and the heat targetting on everything.
Based on the martial changes I figured it shouldn't matter too much with promethean Dvar, as most weapons are single action anyway, so you should still get two "full" shots out of it. Didn't work too well, as you can't move and thus the 5 range on the promethean weapon is really limiting. Which I think is a good sign towards balance.

What I never noticed before (or was it not working before the patch?) is the accuracy increase inside the trench, which makes trenchers real powerhouses. Of course everything causing burning with fire mod on bullets and fire mod on explosives in combination with the heat targetting extra damage worked like a charm, the AoE on the trenchers is a huge bonus as well.

Since the foremen don't have a cooldown on their concussion melee you can tie down once enemy consistently per foreman, after there is no cover destruction/AoE needed anymore.

And yeah, Dvar are surprisingly melee-heavy, especially the excavation tanks. Now with all the fire buffs the tanks are extremely dangerous up close because of their defensive flames. And the tanks are 32 movement ones which makes them useable.

Also, the baron weapon is really awesome on your ranged heroes. 12 damage repeated, at 7 range, with stagger, and the 80% accuracy can be easily offset with hero skills. Plus all the weapon buffs you can mod onto the heroes with 4 mods, those things are brutal.

Also, the later doctrines indeed are quite nice, increasing your cosmite income by 20% is great. (Then again, all races have great lategame doctrines)

However, some points of my critique still remain:
Dvar Mods.
Trencher Upgrade is a must-have first research, and stays on every trencher the whole game. Then comes a whole lot of nothing IMHO. Stagger resistance is "fine", the 8 explosive resistance is pretty much useless unless you fight another Dvar, and I guess only there to not punish all the AoE too hard considering friendly fire. The detector that ignores 50% of cover, meh. 20% crit chance, 10% hit 10% crit, 20% evasion all are better IMHO.
The repair kit, while allowing for a big heal OR a res of a mechanical unit... meh. I guess if you go mechanical-heavy it's useful. But since you basically need to go all infantry or all mechanical in your stacks to not waste mod slots, and the anti-synergy of your mechanicals destroying your healing trenches... well.
Melee Attacks can cause concussion...meh, foremen do that already, trenchers should be shooting, tanks kind of kill the things near them, so concussion isn't necessary. Apart from that only works on bio and cyborgs.
Flare...30% hit chance increase for an action? That the enemy can just evade? Meh. The Psi Mod grants 20% with every attack that sticks on the enemy.
And the final mods, +400 morale on adjacent just does too little in the lategame, and the kinetic thing...I never used honestly, but it sounds so useless.

Strange, kind of antisynergistic roster.
Bulwarks, while allowing a save closing in through their concussions, and agile overwatch against melee, all great, but without any way to heal them they are rather squishy. The strategic heal of the foreman also only works on biological units.
Trenchers and Foremen work great together, along with any bio/cyborg secret tech units. And mechanicals make it weird. They destroy your trenches, most of all.
I still find the baron basically unuseable because of the 24 movement. Had he 32 movement there could be something about the baron/bulwark combo, where you can seamlessly integrate excavation tanks once they come in. I don't mind the artillery being slow, that's expected.
Then the whole long range and melee/low range combination. Makes fights with them unique though, and both trenchers and foremen are almost impossible to melee because of their melee overwatches.
I added some excavation tanks into my trencher/cleanser/foremen stacks once I had some, but they weren't great really, since they couldn't be healed. (I had phoenix bombs on my foremen so no place for the reconstruction kit)

VERY specific colony building/terraforming options.
If there aren't vast amounts of volcanic sectors, you basically never need to build it. And for most of the game (until you get the volcanic research) you still want to build on standard "good" colony positions. You can change mountains to buildable terrain, which is alright if you are swimming in ressources already. But a non-specific sector without any building in them can usually be found without paying for the terraforming operation. And at the time space becomes a real issue and you might be "forced" to take volcanic sectors, you usually can get the volcanic research anyway, at which point it only increases morale I think?
If it would make the colony "immune" to all hazards it'd actually be useful, but only for volcanic? Meh.


All that said, they ARE the most interesting race to play IMHO, BECAUSE of their weird quirks. Since there is almost no damage loss for moving every turn, the fights play out very different to other races IMHO.

 

[The Founder]

I kindly disagree that repeating arms are always better than single shot ones..The repeating ones are very bad vs Obscured..

That is why they are only arguably the best attacks. And I only speak about single action generally not being worth modding.
For every simple rule, there is exceptions.

I did lay out my reasons. Repeating manage randomness very well, by rolling many times (up to 3 times) and have a higher damage potential (about 1.5 times).
With poor hitchances, single-action weapons are indeed better:
- you are more like to first move into a favourable position, using the 2 actions you can nto use for attacks
- if you do get lucky on a unlucky chance, each lucky hit causes way more damage.

 

[The Founder]

Though I basically only used trenchers, the promethean infantry and foremen, with the fire AoE mod on the trenchers and the heat targetting on everything.

Of course everything causing burning with fire mod on bullets and fire mod on explosives in combination with the heat targetting extra damage worked like a charm, the AoE on the trenchers is a huge bonus as well.

One of the big strenghts of Promethean is how easy it is to turn every damage channel (except arc) into fire attacks. So nearly every unit can use that Targetting Relay mod. I noted as much in Secret Techs 101.
Also Dvar get +20% damage on most Promethean units, inlcuding the Walker.

It also helps that you got the Autonoms Imolation Module in that mission.

Based on the martial changes I figured it shouldn't matter too much with promethean Dvar, as most weapons are single action anyway, so you should still get two "full" shots out of it. Didn't work too well, as you can't move and thus the 5 range on the promethean weapon is really limiting. Which I think is a good sign towards balance.

I dislike the Dvar Purifiers. I prefer to compare Purifiers to the T1 and T2 ranged core units that match them the best.
And here the pruifier looses the trenches, the melee attack and 2 range, for a akward to use full action AoE and somewhat more damage (but not as much, as the Trenchers got the trench bonuses).

What I never noticed before (or was it not working before the patch?) is the accuracy increase inside the trench, which makes trenchers real powerhouses.

I definitely read this in one of the patchnotes. So it was not you missing it, it was the game missing it

 

[Arilou]

for a akward to use full action AoE and somewhat more damage (but not as much, as the Trenchers got the trench bonuses).

I find the Plasma bombs fairly easy to use, they have a very nice long range.

 

[The Founder]

I find the Plasma bombs fairly easy to use, they have a very nice long range.

The issue is it being a full action. Wich means they can not move or even be staggered the entire turn before. And in general the AI avoids giving you obvious AoE targets.

And the Pyrx Panels come pretty late. So you are as likely to burn yourself as the enemy.

 

[Elgareth]

The issue is it being a full action. Wich means they can not move or even be staggered the entire turn before. And in general the AI avoids giving you obvious AoE targets.

And the Pyrx Panels come pretty late. So you are as likely to burn yourself as the enemy.

Though I found that to be barely an issue (apart from that the PyrX Panels can only be placed on heavy / mechanical / Cyborg anyway).
That said, the PyrX Panels in Bulwark/Excavation Tank Groups (sadly without barons as 24 move) is extremely strong, you just Need a way to reliably place them. It's devastating once you started your doomsday (at which time you basically have won anyway though ^_^)

The purifiers are thermal hazard immune by Default, and Dvars Stagger resistance (though not great) Comes fairly early. And even if they do get staggered, you can move them to a better Position and fire since they are single-Action, and bomb next turn.

With purifiers being biological infantry, they only really make sense in a trencher / foremen / purifier Combo, so nothing is melee. And Alt-Targetting helps if some enemies DO come Close.

But I agree on the whole purifier vs. trencher Thing. I currently test out the secret techs as I neglected them before, so I wanted to use the purifiers (and aegis-tank, until I saw it has 24 move :-( ), but compared to trenchers they lose 2 range, can't dig in to Regenerate, and while the Plasma bombs are good, the time you can use them you rarely hit 2 Targets, making it good but not extremely good. The fire hazards under enemies are mediocre, because everything burns anyway :-D

And since you want the fire mod on your trenchers anyway when going promethean, they get their AoE included in their normal shot.

 

[The Founder]

With purifiers being biological infantry, they only really make sense in a trencher / foremen / purifier Combo, so nothing is melee.

Trencher do have a melee attack. Just about enough to melee overwatch and push people out of trenches.
And the Foreman has that powerfull concussive attack on the melee.

It can help a lot with avoid damage, if your unit can counter-attack repeating enemy melee attackers.
They attacak.
You counter attack.
If you stagger, the enemy looses one action point. If you push back or concuss, it is even better.

 

[Elgareth]

Trencher do have a melee attack. Just about enough to melee overwatch and push people out of trenches.
And the Foreman has that powerfull concussive attack on the melee.

It can help a lot with avoid damage, if your unit can counter-attack repeating enemy melee attackers.
They attacak.
You counter attack.
If you stagger, the enemy looses one action point. If you push back or concuss, it is even better.

Yes, I mean generally you don't run into the enemy.
Although, another quirk I found for the early game and npc stacks: Don't entrench in the first round. The enemy will be in range in the second round, and if it's a unit without melee overwatch (of which there are many), run your trenchers next to them and entrench there, and shoot them. The shield bash does pitiful damage, but you gain all the good stuff of melee Units that way (Controlling/blocking ranged attackers).
Plus: The AI will throw their grenades at you the second turn, which would destroy your trenches, so you're better off placing them in the second round anyway.

In a state where the Plasmabombs are useful there are usually a decent amount of Units that you always find a target that doesn't cause friendly fire.

 

[Marissa]

Syndicate Purifiers can run into position first turn then have an Overseer use Cerebral Override to throw the bombs.

They're also only 34 energy each to produce with Indentured Contracts and Phoenix Armament, its a good time.

 

[The Founder]

Although, another quirk I found for the early game and npc stacks: Don't entrench in the first round. The enemy will be in range in the second round, and if it's a unit without melee overwatch (of which there are many), run your trenchers next to them and entrench there, and shoot them. The shield bash does pitiful damage, but you gain all the good stuff of melee Units that way (Controlling/blocking ranged attackers).
Plus: The AI will throw their grenades at you the second turn, which would destroy your trenches, so you're better off placing them in the second round anyway.

Plus the part where healing works at teh end of your turn. So it helps to have take some damage before going into fortified trenchers.