Factions Too Easy?

[Lemont Elwood]

I wasn't pleased when I saw the horrible mess of changes to Factions that had come since I stopped playing CK2 months ago, but I decided to play it by ear. Well... I don't know if this is the typical CK+ experience, but I've had barely any problems managing my Factions. That is, I haven't had problems at all. They just stay joyous all year long, without any input by me.

Is it possible that the Opinion modifiers (since my vassals are generally pretty supportive) are excessive, or are there other changes I just don't understand?

The thing is, in past games I would create fairly stable realms, but I always had to pay attention to the Faction's desires. The Princely Faction, in particular, tended to make trouble for me. Now I've got something like a dozen vassal kings, and they won't agitate even a little over my Absolute Crown Authority.

 

[schwarherz]

I...honestly don't even know what you're talking about. The faction system has been streamlined and is, overall, designed to be more challenging than the previous version. The factions play off of each other, want opposite things...literally unless you use other mods or cheat to give yourself a god character there should be no way that the current system is in any way "too easy". Can you give your current checksum? Other mods you are using? Exactly what do you do to create a "too easy" experience?

 

[LordPeter]

"Bad" luck.
Don't judge game mechanics from just one or two playthroughs (or maybe you are too skilled as a ruler).
In my last (and ongoing) campaign I had all sorts of rulers:

A strong starting character (ruler-designed), that doubled his initial territory and was loved by his (few) vassals.
His son, a good strategist, who made a few mistakes (blackmailing gone wrong, badly timed wars) and only barely evaded a civil war.
A Justinian-style conquerer, loved and feared by every single one of his vassals.
A moron that unleashed two civil wars and two rebellions in his lifetime.
His baby child, who somehow managed to put down his pretenders, a brilliant strategist uncle and his ambitious cousin. He was 4 at that time, and civil war never occured.​

So in general: It depends on what ruler you have, your vassal's personalities, and luck.

If you NEVER have any trouble with managing factions, you really have a problem with the mod. But from personal experience, I can say it is quite challenging at times - and relaxing at others.
Overall balanced I think.

On the Princely Faction: I think that one was really strange some time ago. I felt it would ALWAYS demand lowering your crown authority, regardless of the state of your empire.
Nowadays, factions consider a lot of factors, so if you are fearing very well, the factions would not dare to incite civil war. They even check if starting a civil war (and thus them going independent) would get them annexed by neighbouring infidels IIRC - a problem earlier versions had more often for me than they do today.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I...honestly don't even know what you're talking about. The faction system has been streamlined and is, overall, designed to be more challenging than the previous version. The factions play off of each other, want opposite things...literally unless you use other mods or cheat to give yourself a god character there should be no way that the current system is in any way "too easy". Can you give your current checksum? Other mods you are using? Exactly what do you do to create a "too easy" experience?

I don't know, exactly. I've been doing a good job of training my heir to please (the vassals), and I always make sure I have money to buy my way through a succession crisis, as well as weeding out potentially problematic vassals.

That's the thing, I think. I've been keeping vassals loyal, so that pleases the faction, and then the faction opinion bonuses make my vassals even happier, and the cycle continues...

Maybe I should play as a smaller realm for a while, to see if the factions are more difficult to manage?

Let me put it like this: with only focusing on vassal opinion, I've been keeping all factions Happy for 90% of the time. Even successions generally result in the Factions going back to Happy after several months.

 

[Rylock]

What you are talking about IS the way to manage factions. If you can manage their opinions successfully enough by providing them the laws and actions that they like, that's how you keep them pleased.

What would you prefer to see happen? That they rebel even if you keep all their opinions high? That you have less things that please them (even though most factions, I believe, have more things that displease them than the reverse)? I'm not sure what you're asking for.

 

[LordPeter]

I don't know, exactly. I've been doing a good job of training my heir to please (the vassals), and I always make sure I have money to buy my way through a succession crisis, as well as weeding out potentially problematic vassals.

That's the thing, I think. I've been keeping vassals loyal, so that pleases the faction, and then the faction opinion bonuses make my vassals even happier, and the cycle continues...

Maybe I should play as a smaller realm for a while, to see if the factions are more difficult to manage?

Let me put it like this: with only focusing on vassal opinion, I've been keeping all factions Happy for 90% of the time. Even successions generally result in the Factions going back to Happy after several months.

What you are talking about IS the way to manage factions. If you can manage their opinions successfully enough by providing them the laws and actions that they like, that's how you keep them pleased.

What would you prefer to see happen? That they rebel even if you keep all their opinions high? That you have less things that please them (even though most factions, I believe, have more things that displease them than the reverse)? I'm not sure what you're asking for.

I think everything is working as intended frankly.
If you put ALL your energy and ALL your money and ALL your alliances into managing factions, I think it is only plausible that you succeed.

If you are equally focused on internal and external politics, like I personally am, or even just the latter, that's when things get tricky.
Personally, I usually never marry to please vassals, but rather to gain allinaces. And fighting both against the Abbasids and some Indian Emperor as Persia, I had a hard time keeping any money to spend on bribing.
So if you are really big and without strong enemies (and a good ruler), you can easily keep factions in check. Just how it should be. If you ever forget about them for some time, or are under pressure from outside (like losing Holy Wars, which displeases Tradition), you will have a hard time.

 

[Malorn]

I've found factions to be interesting and effective, but I do understand the OP's concern. I think it might be a little too easy to please my vassals in general, rather than an issue with factions, as I tend to have very good relations with them overall. But that might be just that I have good rulers and tend to amass prestige and power early on. I've certainly seen bad rulers get torn apart by factions (one of which I led at the time, heheh).

Heh, nevermind, I realized why they are all such loyal bastards. I'm a pagan Ireland facing off with fully-formed Scotland and England. My vassals are loyal because they are terrified that if they rebel the Christian hordes will come for their souls and magic trees. Which, I should mention, the Christians would definitely do if given half a chance. If I go 5 years without a holy war, it's a blue moon. Yep, working as intended.

 

[LordPeter]

Heh, nevermind, I realized why they are all such loyal bastards. I'm a pagan Ireland facing off with fully-formed Scotland and England. My vassals are loyal because they are terrified that if they rebel the Christian hordes will come for their souls and magic trees. Which, I should mention, the Christians would definitely do if given half a chance. If I go 5 years without a holy war, it's a blue moon. Yep, working as intended.

Excactly.
That is one major change from earlier (and vanilla) game, at least if I am not mistaken: AI actually checks if it can win the war, without getting crushed by neighbouring realms.
Some time ago, before the reworked system, I would play in Slavic lands, and almost despair because every five years or so a civil war breaks lose, and every time it ended inclonclusively because my neighbours just annexed the revolters. That seems to happen far less now, and I am grateful for that.

 

[Rylock]

Excactly.
That is one major change from earlier (and vanilla) game, at least if I am not mistaken: AI actually checks if it can win the war, without getting crushed by neighbouring realms.
Some time ago, before the reworked system, I would play in Slavic lands, and almost despair because every five years or so a civil war breaks lose, and every time it ended inconclusively because my neighbours just annexed the revolters. That seems to happen far less now, and I am grateful for that.

Not quite, I'm afraid. The faction AI does, however, evaluate more carefully whether a rebellion is likely to succeed -- looking at both the strength of their faction, as well as the strength of other unhappy factions, before making demands that could lead them straight into war. The only time the AI looks at neighboring realms is with regards to Independence factions (they don't like to join those if being independent puts them right next to someone who will swallow them up).

 

[LordPeter]

Not quite, I'm afraid. The faction AI does, however, evaluate more carefully whether a rebellion is likely to succeed -- looking at both the strength of their faction, as well as the strength of other unhappy factions, before making demands that could lead them straight into war. The only time the AI looks at neighboring realms is with regards to Independence factions (they don't like to join those if being independent puts them right next to someone who will swallow them up).

Ah I suppose I remembered the latter one. But anyways, it were mostly independence revolts in my game back then.
Still I think it consideres enough for the other types of revolts, a tiny bit of bravery or recklessness for the AI doesn't hurt.